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Bruce Schneier: China and Russia Almost Definitely Have the Snowden Docs

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Re: Bruce Schneier: China and Russia Almost Definitely Have the Snowden Docs

#21

Post by CurtMonash »

I once challenged Glenn Greenwald as to how he could be confident his copy of the documents hadn't been hacked. His answer wasn't terribly convincing.

That said, it's also possible he got lucky. He lives in a fairly isolated farmhouse with a lot of dogs, so maybe it really is hard to do a black bag operation on him. And I'm not sure how even a nation state could do a purely internet-based attack on an air-gapped computer.

That said, Laura Poitras in bustling Berlin or an entire major newspaper might be an easier target ...

Re: Bruce Schneier: China and Russia Almost Definitely Have the Snowden Docs

#22

Post by gizmo686 »

tsotha wrote: post #20
x5n1 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spying is a good thing. Real information keeps people from second guessing each other and prevents cold conflicts from becoming hot.

Spying is a wash - what you're saying is true, but it's only half the equation. Sometimes that second guessing is what keeps the conflict from becoming hot. Spying can compromise a country's defense to the extent another country feels comfortable attacking. Also, if a weaker country can maintain the facade of strength it's less likely to be attacked. The most obvious example is when one country manages to uncover ano…

You need mutual spying, but if you have that, then the week country will know that it is 100% vulnerable to first strike, and surrender before it comes to that.

Re: Bruce Schneier: China and Russia Almost Definitely Have the Snowden Docs

#25

Post by tsotha »

gizmo686 wrote: post #22
tsotha wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spying is a wash - what you're saying is true, but it's only half the equation. Sometimes that second guessing is what keeps the conflict from becoming hot. Spying can compromise a country's defense to the extent another country feels comfortable attacking. Also, if a weaker country can maintain the facade of strength it's less likely to be attacked. The most obvious example is when one country manages to uncover ano…

You need mutual spying, but if you have that, then the week country will know that it is 100% vulnerable to first strike, and surrender before it comes to that.

That never, ever happens.

Re: Bruce Schneier: China and Russia Almost Definitely Have the Snowden Docs

#26

Post by vetinari »

efoto wrote: post #19

Assuming this is true "we have now seen our agents and assets being targeted”, there is another explanation why now - other than foreign agencies getting the documents Snowden took. The explanation is called protecting intelligence sources: Russia, China - or whoever had their spies inside NSA long before, can now act on the intelligence they got without triggering counterintelligence alarms.

Even then, targeting spies is counterproductive.

The spy you know about is much less dangerous than spy that you don't know about.

Re: Bruce Schneier: China and Russia Almost Definitely Have the Snowden Docs

#27

Post by jnbiche »

hackuser wrote: post #13

There's evidence that US government counter-intelligence and information security are very poor: Snowden, Manning, the recent break-in at OPM, etc. In past generations, nuclear plans were stolen, the heads of both FBI and CIA counter-intelligence have been moles, a Navy sailor kept the Soviets updated on the locations of US submarines, etc. Here's a list I came across recently: http://www.wearethemighty.com/american-…

Why is secrecy clearly necessary for governments? You may be right, but it's far from clear.

Re: Bruce Schneier: China and Russia Almost Definitely Have the Snowden Docs

#28

Post by how_about_no »

efoto wrote: post #19

Assuming this is true "we have now seen our agents and assets being targeted”, there is another explanation why now - other than foreign agencies getting the documents Snowden took. The explanation is called protecting intelligence sources: Russia, China - or whoever had their spies inside NSA long before, can now act on the intelligence they got without triggering counterintelligence alarms.

That theory is unlikely to gain traction among the public at this point in time. Even with the much-publicised example of an intelligence community insider exfiltrating data and then traveling to both China and Russia, it's considered uncouth and irresponsible to suggest that those nations have any intelligence assets in the U.S.

Re: Bruce Schneier: China and Russia Almost Definitely Have the Snowden Docs

#30

Post by Retra »

tsotha wrote: post #25
gizmo686 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need mutual spying, but if you have that, then the week country will know that it is 100% vulnerable to first strike, and surrender before it comes to that.

That never, ever happens.

How would you know that?
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