Humans Who Dream Of Companies That Won't Need Us • Hacker News Board

Re: Humans Who Dream Of Companies That Won't Need Us

#21

Post by yummyfajitas » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 4:28 PM UTC

bjelkeman-again wrote: post #15

314 wrote: post #8

Companies are simply a tool that helps a group of people to make a profit. If you remove the group of people then what would be the point?

In some contexts we have nearly removed all the people in this equation already. 85 people own as much as about half the world's population [1]. So, capitalism in the form we have it today, which includes companies, are simply a way to concentrate wealth among the few. Some of these few use the money IMO vicely, but a more equitable system would probably work better. I say this after having lived and worked in the US…

All that statistics says is a lot of people have debt. I personally have more wealth than about half the world in my wallet - I've got about $150 in there, and billions of people have negative net worth.

Global inequality is actually declining, by the way, so can't modern capitalism get some credit for that?

http://www.maxroser.com/economic-world-history-in-one-chart/

https://www.gc.cuny.edu/CUNY_GC/media/CUNY-Graduate-Center/P...

Re: Humans Who Dream Of Companies That Won't Need Us

#22

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 4:37 PM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #18

bjelkeman-again wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some contexts we have nearly removed all the people in this equation already. 85 people own as much as about half the world's population [1]. So, capitalism in the form we have it today, which includes companies, are simply a way to concentrate wealth among the few. Some of these few use the money IMO vicely, but a more equitable system would probably work better. I say this after having lived and worked in the US…

Well, Norway, a country with a population of the size of Colorado, also has more money than half of the world. Does the fact that their society is more equal in itself actually help with the problem you're describe regard worldwide inequality? I don't see the mechanism.

[deleted]

Re: Humans Who Dream Of Companies That Won't Need Us

#23

Post by ep103 » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 5:07 PM UTC

Gravityloss wrote: post #3

At some point we must get rid of all the humans on earth to keep up economic growth. Not entirely joking. Since companies are legal entities and can be run by algorithms, then it's possible that such non-human companies end up with all the capital and all the power. Of course nations and legal systems will also be automatized, with maximum growth as the objective. Then the algorithms can just starve people to death i…

Iain M Bank's culture novels are predicated on this, as an aside.

Re: Humans Who Dream Of Companies That Won't Need Us

#24

Post by phaemon » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 5:30 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #21

bjelkeman-again wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some contexts we have nearly removed all the people in this equation already. 85 people own as much as about half the world's population [1]. So, capitalism in the form we have it today, which includes companies, are simply a way to concentrate wealth among the few. Some of these few use the money IMO vicely, but a more equitable system would probably work better. I say this after having lived and worked in the US…

All that statistics says is a lot of people have debt. I personally have more wealth than about half the world in my wallet - I've got about $150 in there, and billions of people have negative net worth. Global inequality is actually declining, by the way, so can't modern capitalism get some credit for that? http://www.maxroser.com/economic-world-history-in-one-chart/ https://www.gc.cuny.edu/CUNY_GC/media/CUNY-Gradua…

No, you don't. The report makes clear that you need wealth of USD 3,650 to be in the top 50% in the world, and USD 77,000 to be in the top 10%.

https://publications.credit-suisse.com/tasks/render/file/?fi...

Re: Humans Who Dream Of Companies That Won't Need Us

#25

Post by donaldmcintyre » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 5:32 PM UTC

Ethereum components are:

- cryptocurrency - blockchain - consensus mechanism - miners - virtual machine - programmability - browser client

As an open source project it leaves it open to developers, entrepreneurs and organizations to use it and create the applications they wish.

All external political and social dramatization is personal opinion and judgement.

Re: Humans Who Dream Of Companies That Won't Need Us

#26

Post by rorykoehler » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 5:37 PM UTC

donaldmcintyre wrote: post #25

Ethereum components are: - cryptocurrency - blockchain - consensus mechanism - miners - virtual machine - programmability - browser client As an open source project it leaves it open to developers, entrepreneurs and organizations to use it and create the applications they wish. All external political and social dramatization is personal opinion and judgement.

One thing which I think could hold projects like this back a little is the cryptocurrency component. I haven't delved into developing with Ethereum yet... would it be possible to use the non-cryptocurrency components with a FIAT payment system such as Stripe or Paypal?

Re: Humans Who Dream Of Companies That Won't Need Us

#27

Post by rorykoehler » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 5:43 PM UTC

314 wrote: post #8

Companies are simply a tool that helps a group of people to make a profit. If you remove the group of people then what would be the point?

Maybe the definition and purpose of a company is not so set in stone. Of course I can see how you could have come to this conclusion and often you are probably correct in the assumption but it would also be possible to say:

Companies are simply a tool for creating value for humans by allowing us to exchange money for convenience. Just because the running of the Ethereum mobility company (for example) is completely automated doesn't mean that people won't be able to get from A to B using it.

Re: Humans Who Dream Of Companies That Won't Need Us

#28

Post by rorykoehler » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 5:47 PM UTC

yummyfajitas wrote: post #21

bjelkeman-again wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In some contexts we have nearly removed all the people in this equation already. 85 people own as much as about half the world's population [1]. So, capitalism in the form we have it today, which includes companies, are simply a way to concentrate wealth among the few. Some of these few use the money IMO vicely, but a more equitable system would probably work better. I say this after having lived and worked in the US…

All that statistics says is a lot of people have debt. I personally have more wealth than about half the world in my wallet - I've got about $150 in there, and billions of people have negative net worth. Global inequality is actually declining, by the way, so can't modern capitalism get some credit for that? http://www.maxroser.com/economic-world-history-in-one-chart/ https://www.gc.cuny.edu/CUNY_GC/media/CUNY-Gradua…

Sure contemporary capitalism has achieved some positives for the living standards of people globally (it's also destroyed others such as Amazonian tribes etc) but I think it's quite clear that it has run it's natural course and that it will be replaced by something either more efficient or more egalitarian soon. Hopefully any new system will have elements of both and probably it will also have heavy capitalist roots still.

Re: Humans Who Dream Of Companies That Won't Need Us

#29

Post by toomuchtodo » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 5:54 PM UTC

Ygg2 wrote: post #6

Gravityloss wrote: post #3

At some point we must get rid of all the humans on earth to keep up economic growth. Not entirely joking. Since companies are legal entities and can be run by algorithms, then it's possible that such non-human companies end up with all the capital and all the power. Of course nations and legal systems will also be automatized, with maximum growth as the objective. Then the algorithms can just starve people to death i…

> At some point we must get rid of all the humans on earth to keep up economic growth. Sure, but first we need at least few colonies to move to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_Colonial_Transporter

Re: Humans Who Dream Of Companies That Won't Need Us

#30

Post by yummyfajitas » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 5:58 PM UTC

phaemon wrote: post #24

yummyfajitas wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All that statistics says is a lot of people have debt. I personally have more wealth than about half the world in my wallet - I've got about $150 in there, and billions of people have negative net worth. Global inequality is actually declining, by the way, so can't modern capitalism get some credit for that? http://www.maxroser.com/economic-world-history-in-one-chart/ https://www.gc.cuny.edu/CUNY_GC/media/CUNY-Gradua…

No, you don't. The report makes clear that you need wealth of USD 3,650 to be in the top 50% in the world, and USD 77,000 to be in the top 10%. https://publications.credit-suisse.com/tasks/render/file/?fi...

You are missing the point. Let me make a mathematical example. Suppose the population distribution is $[-100000 (1M people), 100000 (1M people), 200000 (1 person)]. Then anyone with $1 in net assets has more wealth than the bottom 2/3. In particular, the top person also has more wealth than the bottom 2/3.

All this fact says is that a bunch of assets minus a bunch of debts adds up to small numbers.

(Also note that I said "about half the world" - I don't claim to know the exact cutoff.)