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Robots are leaving the factory floor and heading for your desk – and your job

theguardian.com

11–20 of 64 posts

Re: Robots are leaving the factory floor and heading for your desk – and your job

#11
"It could be said that the job of bridge toll collector was invented in San Francisco."

Romans did collect taxes for using a bridge 2.000 years ago.

There was the alternative of crossing the river yourself or hiring someone to do it(ferrymen).

I have been working in automation for a while. It is true that companies could fire more and more people and replace it with robots because they are less expensive.

It is also true that now people could compete with big guys much cheaper because robots will become dirt cheap. We are starting to see with 3d printers(that are robots themselves).

War has started, big guys are ok with people playing with toys in their basements, but want to make it illegal for small guys to compete with them.

This is what software and business patents are about. Only big guys, most of whom were in the past little guys , creating a legislation in order to make it impossible for newcomers to do with them what they did to others in the past.

Re: Robots are leaving the factory floor and heading for your desk – and your job

#12
Currently, if a company disposes of all of its workers and replaces them by robots (minus a bit of left human staff for administration), the profits end up entirely in the pockets of the owners instead of getting redistributed to the working population.

Therefore, I believe that companies operating this way should pay a "robot tax"; the funds gathered by this tax must be redistributed as unemployment/social benefits or, better, as guaranteed income.

Otherwise funds will accumulate in the hands of a very few and not be put into any productive use - hell, just look at Apple's cash reserves, Apple alone could bail out Greece and even profit from it. Currently, the Apple money is just lying around and doing nothing productive at all.

Re: Robots are leaving the factory floor and heading for your desk – and your job

#13
"Will robots cause unemployment or create new types of jobs and increased leisure time for humans?"

Usual false dichotomy. It can be both, or neither. Robots are nothing novel. You can replace "robots" with "farm machinery" or "construction equipment" and ask the same question--except then, then answers are clearer, which makes the absurdity of this question apparent. Farm machinery probably created unemployment among farm hands. On the other hand, rich countries would not have the same standard of living they have today if half their labor forces were on farms.

Re: Robots are leaving the factory floor and heading for your desk – and your job

#14

> But they note that the boundaries of what counts as routine and non-routine are moving all the time. It was once thought that driving was a skill so complex it couldn’t be automated only to see it turned on its head by Google and others. What happens when programming becomes routine? I expect there will be a very scary moment when we all realize that someone with the right resources has discovered the right learnin…

At that point in time, the robot understand the real world well enough to implement it in software and make your software and real world exceptions match up.

At this point it's basically "We welcome our computer overlords." and not only programming will be at risk.

Re: Robots are leaving the factory floor and heading for your desk – and your job

#16
post #2

if everything gets replaced by bots, how will the economy run given that much of it is because of employees getting paid and in turn spending that money?

Well at this point "labour" is free. The only logical solution I see at this point is basically communism. The only work left will be politics/ethics.

But politics is what we should replace first in my opinion :D

Side effect of free labour: prices going down a lot.

Re: Robots are leaving the factory floor and heading for your desk – and your job

#17
post #2

if everything gets replaced by bots, how will the economy run given that much of it is because of employees getting paid and in turn spending that money?

Most interesting possibility: there will be an inflection point in the way we do production & distribution. The capital costs and inefficiencies of distributed production fall every day (internet to distribute knowledge, ever-advancing low-N fabrication technology) while the disadvantages of centralized production increase (capital is becoming more important, labor less important, meaning the average split of the proceeds is ever more extractive). At some point people on the bottom rungs will find it advantageous to work for "communes" instead of employers. Scare quotes because there's a lot of back-to-nature & peacenik baggage associated with the word "commune" that doesn't necessarily apply here -- it's just a different structure for production and employment that avoids the deleveraging effects of forcing people to compete for a spot in a shrinking global pool of jobs. The communes I'm picturing would make heavy use of industrial technology and compete against one another for people by advertising the benefits they offer vs the labor required for membership.

Less disruptive: mandatory reduction in workweek to restore supply/demand balance in unskilled labor market.

Costly but traditional: Basic/minimum income. Expansion of traditional welfare programs. Society creaks along having found the minimum handout required to keep people from doing something about the problem.

Cynical: civic unrest, police crackdown, rinse, repeat, spiral out of control. We've all seen the movies.

Re: Robots are leaving the factory floor and heading for your desk – and your job

#18

> But they note that the boundaries of what counts as routine and non-routine are moving all the time. It was once thought that driving was a skill so complex it couldn’t be automated only to see it turned on its head by Google and others. What happens when programming becomes routine? I expect there will be a very scary moment when we all realize that someone with the right resources has discovered the right learnin…

A lot of programming has become routine. Think of all the programming involved to build even a 1/10th of the functionality of what can be created, literally, in a single command. Yet anyone who is acquainted to programming and web dev would say that running the Rails generator does not obviate the use of programming. And for those who are relatively experienced, this automation is a huge benefit, allowing the programmer to focus on designing more features and expending more of their creative energy on non-routine work.

In other words, as some programming tasks becomes routine, many more non-routine tasks become available to us.

Re: Robots are leaving the factory floor and heading for your desk – and your job

#19

Currently, if a company disposes of all of its workers and replaces them by robots (minus a bit of left human staff for administration), the profits end up entirely in the pockets of the owners instead of getting redistributed to the working population. Therefore, I believe that companies operating this way should pay a "robot tax"; the funds gathered by this tax must be redistributed as unemployment/social benefits…

Unless it is literally sitting in a vault (it isn't), Apple's cash is being used for stuff. Here's an article about that:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/1246081-apple-does-not-have-...

I don't really get the idea of a robot tax, why make special rules for one particular type of productivity? Should accountants that use better software also pay higher taxes than less efficient accountants that use simple calculators and paper?

Re: Robots are leaving the factory floor and heading for your desk – and your job

#20
post #3

Someone has to program those robots.

If a lot of people went into programming, then it would become the new working class.

In places like India or Argentina, the median salary for programmers and computer scientists is really low(1/20th of theUS). Its only a stronghold for so long.

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