Ask HN: Boss with Steve Jobs Complex • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Boss with Steve Jobs Complex

#21

Post by seekingcharlie » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 7:25 AM UTC

I've lead design & PM at several startups & I can basically tell straight-out, that building without a design, wireframe, or at the very least a written spec is completely inefficient & it's likely that you will have to rebuild this all later. Basically every company I've worked had a similar process in place (often lead by the CEO) - this process does not scale & it will cause technical debt to your engineering team.

For all I know, this guy may actually be some product visionary, but why isn't he telling this vision to designers to create the mocks so the intricacies are worked out before it gets to build? Is it because he doesn't believe this process would move quick enough?

Also, one huge flag for me is that not once in your post did you mention that his "vision" was based off feedback of users. This is the most important task of a product manager (collecting user feedback & filtering it back to engineering). In the past, I've also had hunches about how things should work & I've proven myself completely wrong either after asking users or in usability tests on the build I designed.

Remember, Steve Jobs was designing products for the average person - not a lot of startups target such a blanket market & most are targeting some subset niche. You really need to be a voice for the users you're targeting.

Re: Ask HN: Boss with Steve Jobs Complex

#22

Post by paulsutter » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 8:28 AM UTC

You are in a shitty situation. Focus on finding a great job, and avoid investing emotionally in this one.

Re: Ask HN: Boss with Steve Jobs Complex

#23

Post by davismwfl » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 11:29 AM UTC

sj0000 wrote: post #14

davismwfl wrote: post #13

Maybe, maybe not. I worked with a guy as a contractor where he swears he was a Steve Jobs. Realistically, all he was is a guy with lots of ideas and no follow thru. So he wasn't a Steve Jobs at all and most all his visions totally violated good design principles. When I would point that out he would say because his thoughts were visionary and not yet known. Yea, and I fart unicorns dancing and rainbows. In the end, y…

"Idea guys" are mostly useless: the people that want credit for "thinking of something" and kick back while everyone else works. More often than not, they're deluded and "in love" with "their" "great" ideas that deny reality in high-def cognitive dissonance. (They're usually wantrepreneurs or enterprise busywork titles.) What set SJ apart was positive value (being right more often than not, building people up to prod…

Totally agree.

Re: Ask HN: Boss with Steve Jobs Complex

#24

Post by brudgers » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 4:16 PM UTC

rosenthyme wrote: post #5

greenyoda wrote: post #3

I have no way of knowing whether your project is destined for failure. But to me that would be almost irrelevant - if I had a boss who humiliated people (publicly or privately), I'd be looking for work elsewhere. I wouldn't have put up with that kind of abuse even from Steve Jobs himself.

I have read so many stories of tough personalities like this who chew out their people publicly, yet in the process achieve greatness for themselves, their teams, and their products. I supposed I would have accepted this if I were working for Steve Jobs or Elon Musk or Steve Ballmer, so I keep wondering if I should just suck it up and grind on. But coding-to-vision rather than coding-to-design/spec seems so inefficie…

Most assholes are just ordinary average assholes. Great assholes are the exception and occur at no greater frequency than great non-assholes in the general population.

Re: Ask HN: Boss with Steve Jobs Complex

#25

Post by herm » Sun, Jun 21, 2015, 4:34 AM UTC

I think you should work through the details with your team and own the project and defend your decisions. He can only humiliate you if you believe what he is saying. There are people you just can't please, however, that is how he is pushing you to be great. That is probably why he is successful.

To be honest I have never received even 4 hours per week from a manager, on a consistent basis. You need to manage him like he is upper management or a client, he will ask the impossible, not tell you how to succeed, and expect everything.

Build what he needs, and persuade him as to why it is great. He wont express the details because even he doesn't really know.

Re: Ask HN: Boss with Steve Jobs Complex

#26

Post by mkaziz » Mon, Jun 22, 2015, 6:41 PM UTC

rosenthyme wrote: post #5

greenyoda wrote: post #3

I have no way of knowing whether your project is destined for failure. But to me that would be almost irrelevant - if I had a boss who humiliated people (publicly or privately), I'd be looking for work elsewhere. I wouldn't have put up with that kind of abuse even from Steve Jobs himself.

I have read so many stories of tough personalities like this who chew out their people publicly, yet in the process achieve greatness for themselves, their teams, and their products. I supposed I would have accepted this if I were working for Steve Jobs or Elon Musk or Steve Ballmer, so I keep wondering if I should just suck it up and grind on. But coding-to-vision rather than coding-to-design/spec seems so inefficie…

How successful were the developers that got chewed out? :)