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A Sea Change in Treating Heart Attacks

nytimes.com

51–60 of 61 posts

Re: A Sea Change in Treating Heart Attacks

#51

It's like an F1 pit stop.

If only.

http://img.pandawhale.com/post-41481-ferrari-f1-pit-stop-per...

But you know, maybe someday it will be like this. You suspect heart attack, ambulance pulls up, does procedure on the spot, and you're back in business in 60 minutes. If they detect major tissue damage, then a quick stem cell injection plus you have to call in sick for a week.

All of today's medicine would have been impossible to believe even a century ago.

Re: A Sea Change in Treating Heart Attacks

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After I had my heart-attack last year[1], I was asked to participate in a clinical trial of a device called a "Life Vest". I did so briefly, although I ditched it pretty quickly because it was too uncomfortable to sleep in. But this thing was basically a wearable EKG/defibrillator. It monitored your heart rhythm and, if you went into a bad rhythm, would actually give you a shock from the defibrillator. Handy if you w…

Other than being slightly less invasive, this seems significantly inferior to an AICD [1] [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implantable_cardioverter-defib...

Significantly less invasive. Not everybody needs a defib after a heart attack, especially in the case of minor, atrial infarctions.

Re: A Sea Change in Treating Heart Attacks

#53
post #2

A month ago, a friend who'd worked as a doctor in South Africa for decades was interning with me to learn about the procedures in our German ER. I remember the first time a patient with a heart attack came in while she was there, and the speed of the proceedings just blew. her. mind. What happens, if things go well, is this: The EMTs transmit a picture of the electrocardiogram to us[1]. We confirm that it's a STEMI (…

Interesting... I would have assumed Germany would be a bit more advanced in prehospital care. Here in the US (in a rural/suburban area outside a smallish city in upstate New York), the flow would look more like: A paramedic recognizes a potential MI and takes a 12-lead EKG. If it is indeed a STEMI, then we'll call the ER and transmit the EKG and other vitals (via a cell modem embedded in the monitor). If the ER doc a…

For an unstable patient, our process is much the same - the EMTs will put in the IVs, and we'll bypass the ER to proceed directly to the cath lab. For stable patients, the EMTs will prioritize getting them to the hospital as fast as possible and often won't have the time to get the IVs into place before they arrive. (This part of the county has a ridiculous density of hospitals, so the ambulance ride is frequently not even five minutes long, which doesn't give the EMTs that much time to work.)

We've found that things go little more smoothly if we do some of the prep in the ER, where there's a little more space for people to undress the patient etc. without worrying about bumping into the expense catheter equipment or compromising sterility, but even stable patients aren't supposed to spend more than five minutes there before being rushed to cath.

I do wish we had some way to directly transmit EKGs and vitals. American hospitals seem to have more money available for electronic equipment like that. (On the other hand, in Germany, the whole hospital stay including the catheter and a day in the ICU, probably won't cost you more than 10.000 Euro, and usually less than that.)

Re: A Sea Change in Treating Heart Attacks

#54
post #2

A month ago, a friend who'd worked as a doctor in South Africa for decades was interning with me to learn about the procedures in our German ER. I remember the first time a patient with a heart attack came in while she was there, and the speed of the proceedings just blew. her. mind. What happens, if things go well, is this: The EMTs transmit a picture of the electrocardiogram to us[1]. We confirm that it's a STEMI (…

> By taking a picture of it on their phone and transmitting it via Whatsapp, which is just about the ugliest, hackiest and probably borderline-legal way of transmitting patient data imaginable, but it gets the job done. Congrats on the massive process improvement on using readily-available technology. I'm no lawyer but I'm pretty certain that this violates HIPAA, which means it's a new market just screaming for PII-m…

We don't put the patient's name on the EKG, so it's not directly identifiable, and we get their consent before submitting (if they're in any state to consent, which often they aren't), but I'm sure it does violate all kinds of rules and guidelines, if not actual laws.

Re: A Sea Change in Treating Heart Attacks

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After I had my heart-attack last year[1], I was asked to participate in a clinical trial of a device called a "Life Vest". I did so briefly, although I ditched it pretty quickly because it was too uncomfortable to sleep in. But this thing was basically a wearable EKG/defibrillator. It monitored your heart rhythm and, if you went into a bad rhythm, would actually give you a shock from the defibrillator. Handy if you w…

Other than being slightly less invasive, this seems significantly inferior to an AICD [1] [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implantable_cardioverter-defib...

You generally want to wait six weeks after a heart attack before implanting an AICD, because the patient's heart frequently recovers to the point where an AICD won't be necessary at all. The LifeVest is supposed to bridge those six weeks.

Re: A Sea Change in Treating Heart Attacks

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair to the author, not every ambulance crew is paramedic level. And the term "ambulance attendant" was, at one time, in widespread use - to the point that the first level of EMS certification was actually called "Ambulance Attendant", if memory serves correctly. I know it's annoying when non-domain-specialists misuse terminology, even slightly, but I could see giving them a pass on this one.

Yeah, hence my being 'irked' not 'really offended'. I suspect most folks here consider themselves more than just "typists".

Though to be fair, I have a pretty high level of respect for 'Ambulance Drivers,' as conveyed by the inarticulate, if descriptive term. It's kinda like saying a 'Aircraft Carrier Steerer', or 'Space Shuttle Driver'. It might not be the actual term of art, but I do know that person is pretty badass.

Re: A Sea Change in Treating Heart Attacks

#57
post #2

A month ago, a friend who'd worked as a doctor in South Africa for decades was interning with me to learn about the procedures in our German ER. I remember the first time a patient with a heart attack came in while she was there, and the speed of the proceedings just blew. her. mind. What happens, if things go well, is this: The EMTs transmit a picture of the electrocardiogram to us[1]. We confirm that it's a STEMI (…

Interesting... I would have assumed Germany would be a bit more advanced in prehospital care. Here in the US (in a rural/suburban area outside a smallish city in upstate New York), the flow would look more like: A paramedic recognizes a potential MI and takes a 12-lead EKG. If it is indeed a STEMI, then we'll call the ER and transmit the EKG and other vitals (via a cell modem embedded in the monitor). If the ER doc a…

Is there any opportunity (or practice) of other conditions bypassing the ER? If that's the bottleneck, I hope it doesn't have to be life-or-death for someone to thing "We should re-engineer this process".

E.g. uncomplicated fractures getting brought to the fracture clinic?

Re: A Sea Change in Treating Heart Attacks

#58
post #42

Reading articles like this you suddenly realise that living in a sparsely populated rural area you sacrifice a hell of a lot in health care as as well as the more obvious career, education and entertainment benefits. Having some risk factors like age and weight and living hundreds of km from a cardiologist is a bit of a worry. Are there cheap, effective ways of screening people with no history of heart problems so pe…

Probably the biggest two that we have are mentioned in the article. Blood pressure and cholesterol. Hopefully you are getting your yearly checkups including blood work done.

Re: A Sea Change in Treating Heart Attacks

#59
Perhaps too cynical after seeing medicos botch treatment for two family members. The main reason is the bottom line. If the allow people of marginal health to die too early, then their maximum utility diminishes unless the victim/patient can be kept alive for another 5 to 10 years.

This is a similar monetary basis for the cancer model - to extend the treatment period. Prolonging life has little to do with quality and meaning of life. The medical community is fundamentally corrupt.

Re: A Sea Change in Treating Heart Attacks

#60
post #2

A month ago, a friend who'd worked as a doctor in South Africa for decades was interning with me to learn about the procedures in our German ER. I remember the first time a patient with a heart attack came in while she was there, and the speed of the proceedings just blew. her. mind. What happens, if things go well, is this: The EMTs transmit a picture of the electrocardiogram to us[1]. We confirm that it's a STEMI (…

> By taking a picture of it on their phone and transmitting it via Whatsapp, which is just about the ugliest, hackiest and probably borderline-legal way of transmitting patient data imaginable, but it gets the job done. Congrats on the massive process improvement on using readily-available technology. I'm no lawyer but I'm pretty certain that this violates HIPAA, which means it's a new market just screaming for PII-m…

Though I can't find any reference to it, I'm fairly certain that TextSecure would be HIPAA compliant. I think I'll try to point that out to Moxie and see if they can make it official.
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