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European Court Strikes Down Law Allowing Users to Rip Their Own CDs

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Re: European Court Strikes Down Law Allowing Users to Rip Their Own CDs

#21

Post by bhrgunatha »

istvan__ wrote: post #17
bhrgunatha wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear this argument very often but I don't see any strong evidence that it is happening in the majority case, nor will happen. The music/entertainment industries have been relatively slow to react to digitisation, the internet and technological advances, but their lobbying prowess is frightening. Just look at their power and handywork at the national level instigating ridiculous and oppressive laws and at the intern…

"In early 2015, Bandcamp released an announcement that artists using the website had officially gotten $100 million in total from music sale" Total music industry is 15B (afaik). It is 1/150th of the entire music industry and that is just one site. I think the artist make more on Bandcamp and other music distribution platforms than on big labels, that might be the reason why Bandcamp is greatly successful.

Well that's incredibly positive and I wasn't aware of that. I'm used to seeing more of the news that artists get almost no money through Spotify and similar channels or that consumer websites like Pandora getting legally harassed.

Re: European Court Strikes Down Law Allowing Users to Rip Their Own CDs

#22

Post by pjmlp »

jkot wrote: post #19

This is just UK. I dont think it will fly in Spain, Czech rep or other parts of EU. For start there is author tax to compensate authors for fair use, it is collected as VAT on empty mediums and printers. With this law many powerful people would loose money. I would welcome it, since it means cheaper hardware. And secondly: YES! More stupid laws like this, more DRM and people will turn to free music under Creative-Com…

People will just pirate more.

Re: European Court Strikes Down Law Allowing Users to Rip Their Own CDs

#23

Post by pparkkin »

rsto wrote: post #20

European Copyright legislative is an inconsistent mess. Right now, in Austria, the government is up to demand 6% of the price of any digital storage device, to compensate copyright holders when the legit consumers of their work execute their right to make a private copy . So the European Court apparently just has settled that in one country of the EU, consumers do not have the right to make private copies, while in o…

From the linked text.

The government's choices are now to remove the private copying exception—making personal copying illegal again, or to supply additional evidence that copyright owners suffer no or minimal “harm” from personal copying, or else to begin imposing a new tax on users to compensate the industry for that “harm”.

Which sounds to me like UK has the option to start collecting a similar surcharge to compensate for the right to make private copies of works. They are not required to ban private copying completely.

Re: European Court Strikes Down Law Allowing Users to Rip Their Own CDs

#24

Post by meddlepal »

bhrgunatha wrote: post #14
istvan__ wrote: post #4

Good old greed. The speed CDs and the music industry is disappearing probably will solve this issue going forward. Music is getting more and more fragmented and smaller and smaller styles show up that are very specific to a particular location. This will help to dismantle the music industry lobby probably.

I hear this argument very often but I don't see any strong evidence that it is happening in the majority case, nor will happen. The music/entertainment industries have been relatively slow to react to digitisation, the internet and technological advances, but their lobbying prowess is frightening. Just look at their power and handywork at the national level instigating ridiculous and oppressive laws and at the intern…

I agree primarily because the music industries target demographic appears to be 12 to 26... A group that usually heavily consumes what their peers listen to. Niche music appreciation mostly occurs later in life. My point is that fragmentation doesn't matter to the existing powers because the target of those groups doesn't fragment until they are much older and when they do they have a new set of fresh blood.

Re: European Court Strikes Down Law Allowing Users to Rip Their Own CDs

#25

Post by tonyedgecombe »

comboy wrote: post #13
anigbrowl wrote: post #2

Seizing on the opportunity to use this supranational directive to overturn a democratically-enacted law The directive exists pursuant to action of the European Parliament* which is also a democratic institution, as someone with Jeremy Malcolm's outstanding education is surely aware. * http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/LexUriServ.do?uri=CELEX:... I'm not expressing an opinion on the merits of European copyright law;…

Well, I'm from Europe and I don't like most of the things that come out of Brussels. In fact, when polls are made it would seem majority share my view. Maybe then 'undemocratic' is not such a bad name for it? It's tons of bureaucracy with very little democracy.

I think the majority don't have a clue what laws come out of the EU versus their own parliament.

The EU has about 33 thousand employees, this is hardly tons of bureaucracy, just UK local government has 2.3 million employees.

Re: European Court Strikes Down Law Allowing Users to Rip Their Own CDs

#26

Post by rsto »

pparkkin wrote: post #23
rsto wrote: post #20

European Copyright legislative is an inconsistent mess. Right now, in Austria, the government is up to demand 6% of the price of any digital storage device, to compensate copyright holders when the legit consumers of their work execute their right to make a private copy . So the European Court apparently just has settled that in one country of the EU, consumers do not have the right to make private copies, while in o…

From the linked text. The government's choices are now to remove the private copying exception—making personal copying illegal again, or to supply additional evidence that copyright owners suffer no or minimal “harm” from personal copying, or else to begin imposing a new tax on users to compensate the industry for that “harm”. Which sounds to me like UK has the option to start collecting a similar surcharge to compen…

Thanks, I read the article but this sentence must have slipped my attention. I really would like to see them to supply evidence that copyright owners suffer no or minimal harm from personal copying but guess they won't even bother attempting.

Re: European Court Strikes Down Law Allowing Users to Rip Their Own CDs

#27

Post by thirdsun »

bhrgunatha wrote: post #21
istvan__ wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In early 2015, Bandcamp released an announcement that artists using the website had officially gotten $100 million in total from music sale" Total music industry is 15B (afaik). It is 1/150th of the entire music industry and that is just one site. I think the artist make more on Bandcamp and other music distribution platforms than on big labels, that might be the reason why Bandcamp is greatly successful.

Well that's incredibly positive and I wasn't aware of that. I'm used to seeing more of the news that artists get almost no money through Spotify and similar channels or that consumer websites like Pandora getting legally harassed.

Bandcamp is very different though - you buy and own your music there. An album bought is worth much more to an artist than fractions of a cent per stream.

I'm not surprised that Bandcamp has been doing that well for a long time now. In contrast to all those streaming services it's a business model that seems to be sustainable.

Re: European Court Strikes Down Law Allowing Users to Rip Their Own CDs

#28

Post by DanBC »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #25
comboy wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I'm from Europe and I don't like most of the things that come out of Brussels. In fact, when polls are made it would seem majority share my view. Maybe then 'undemocratic' is not such a bad name for it? It's tons of bureaucracy with very little democracy.

I think the majority don't have a clue what laws come out of the EU versus their own parliament. The EU has about 33 thousand employees, this is hardly tons of bureaucracy, just UK local government has 2.3 million employees.

A lot of local government are not strictly bureaucrats but are people providing services.

Re: European Court Strikes Down Law Allowing Users to Rip Their Own CDs

#29

Post by serge2k »

jkot wrote: post #19

This is just UK. I dont think it will fly in Spain, Czech rep or other parts of EU. For start there is author tax to compensate authors for fair use, it is collected as VAT on empty mediums and printers. With this law many powerful people would loose money. I would welcome it, since it means cheaper hardware. And secondly: YES! More stupid laws like this, more DRM and people will turn to free music under Creative-Com…

uh sure okay.

People will continue to obey copyright laws as closely as ever. right.

Re: European Court Strikes Down Law Allowing Users to Rip Their Own CDs

#30

Post by Oletros »

jkot wrote: post #19

This is just UK. I dont think it will fly in Spain, Czech rep or other parts of EU. For start there is author tax to compensate authors for fair use, it is collected as VAT on empty mediums and printers. With this law many powerful people would loose money. I would welcome it, since it means cheaper hardware. And secondly: YES! More stupid laws like this, more DRM and people will turn to free music under Creative-Com…

From the linked text.

> The government's choices are now to remove the private copying exception—making personal copying illegal again, or to supply additional evidence that copyright owners suffer no or minimal “harm” from personal copying, or else to begin imposing a new tax on users to compensate the indust

This is exactly the situation we have in Spain, a tax was created to compensate private copy.

Sure it would fly in Spain

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