What Happens to Home Prices When Technologists Come to Town • Hacker News Board

Re: What Happens to Home Prices When Technologists Come to Town

#51

Post by superuser2 » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 3:15 AM UTC

xux wrote: post #21

stephengillie wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It embarrasses me that less physical effort grants me a more valuable reward. This probably just reflects my laborer upbringing. I put together a few lines today that automates a 5-minute process. Across the scope of a few thousand servers, this obviates about 6.25 weeks of labor. It really does feel magical.

> It embarrasses me that less physical effort grants me a more valuable reward Why? Just because you work hard doesn't mean you deserve more

"If you work harder you will be more successful" is the fundamental axiom of American conservatism. Of course I can't speak for everyone, but the primary reason to oppose a social safety net is "those people are poor because they aren't working hard enough." This requires a belief that hard(er) work is and should be rewarded better.

I'd say your claim is nonobvious. That the world is fundamentally fair, and that hard work is the most important aspect of virtue, are deep ideas in American culture and very much tied up with the American Dream (TM).

Contemporary liberals typically challenge the "world is fundamentally fair" part, appealing to structural *-ism that makes this untrue for people other than white men born to financially secure parents.

Few (economists, maybe) would argue that how hard you work does not influence how much you deserve.

Re: What Happens to Home Prices When Technologists Come to Town

#52

Post by jseliger » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 3:19 AM UTC

stephengillie wrote: post #16

Seattle's traditional Capitol Hill residents are really struggling with the tech influx, just down the hill in SLU. New bars and restaurants open daily, rents have skyrocketed, and their arts scene is being pushed up the hill and to the east.

rents have skyrocketed

This is an easily solvable problem: http://www.amazon.com/Rent-Too-Damn-High-Matters-ebook/dp/B0....

Capitol Hill height limits and parking minimums are insane. I used to live across the street from Seattle U, and the apartment building was only four stories high. It should've been 20 stories, since everyone in it was connected to the university. Every street west of Broadway / 10th and south of Prospect should have no height limits or parking minimums. The problem can be solved: Seattle's politicians (and, by extension, voters) choose not to solve it.

Re: What Happens to Home Prices When Technologists Come to Town

#53

Post by hughdbrown » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 3:53 AM UTC

Does anyone from Denver also find that the relationship is overstated? I don't know of any Denver offices for Apple, Facebook, or Amazon. The only Twitter or Google offices I am aware of are in Boulder. Boulder and Denver are connected by a single highway and the commute is bad enough to effectively separate the two tech hubs. I don't see how anyone can claim that the 1200 employees attributed to Google, Apple, Amazon, and Facebook (which I dispute is an accurate number for Denver) could possibly have any measurable effect on a city of 600K / metro area of 2.6 million.

Re: What Happens to Home Prices When Technologists Come to Town

#54

Post by narrowrail » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 4:01 AM UTC

hughdbrown wrote: post #53

Does anyone from Denver also find that the relationship is overstated? I don't know of any Denver offices for Apple, Facebook, or Amazon. The only Twitter or Google offices I am aware of are in Boulder. Boulder and Denver are connected by a single highway and the commute is bad enough to effectively separate the two tech hubs. I don't see how anyone can claim that the 1200 employees attributed to Google, Apple, Amazo…

While I don't live on the Front Range anymore, I did for 20 years. Denver to Boulder is ~25 miles, and I use to make the commute in 25 minutes (not during rush hour). It was quite common to refer to the Denver/Boulder metro area. I know things have changed, but ~1hr commutes don't seem to me to be significant enough to be called separate.

Re: What Happens to Home Prices When Technologists Come to Town

#55

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 4:07 AM UTC

stephengillie wrote: post #13

mentat wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only because we insist that everyone work 8 hours a day to eat and have a place to live though we don't have to.

Being poor is just a lack of liquidity. Minimum income is opening the bank bailout philosophy from just corporate persons, to all persons. But human people act differently than corporate people, so maybe it will work in this scope. Edit: If you disagree, could you please say why? I can be dense and clueless, but it's hard to improve if I'm ignorant.

[deleted]

Re: What Happens to Home Prices When Technologists Come to Town

#56

Post by jobjh797878 » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 4:07 AM UTC

stephengillie wrote: post #13

mentat wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Only because we insist that everyone work 8 hours a day to eat and have a place to live though we don't have to.

Being poor is just a lack of liquidity. Minimum income is opening the bank bailout philosophy from just corporate persons, to all persons. But human people act differently than corporate people, so maybe it will work in this scope. Edit: If you disagree, could you please say why? I can be dense and clueless, but it's hard to improve if I'm ignorant.

I don't disagree with what you said because it doesn't appear you said anything of substance. Perhaps that is why people downvoted.

Re: What Happens to Home Prices When Technologists Come to Town

#57

Post by carboncopy » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 4:12 AM UTC

eonw wrote: post #15

ask seattle, they are dealing with it now and many of the locals aint to happy. not only have housing prices gone up, traffic and crime have as well.

> crime [has gone up] as well.

Despite what the talking heads may have you believe, crime has dropped significantly in Seattle since its population and economic growth.

http://www.city-data.com/crime/crime-Seattle-Washington.html

Re: What Happens to Home Prices When Technologists Come to Town

#58

Post by WalterBright » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 4:37 AM UTC

meesterdude wrote: post #6

> When I bought my first house, using money earned from co-founding a software company, I couldn’t believe that such abstract work could be exchanged for something so big and tangible, hewn from forests and rocks by people sweating in the sun. I've been writing software for years, and it still feels like magic. People work 3x as hard as me and I make 3x as much as them. Many make real, physical things; i just type aw…

That's because it's not how hard you work, it's how effectively you work. Writing software has a lot of leverage.

Re: What Happens to Home Prices When Technologists Come to Town

#59

Post by afarrell » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 4:39 AM UTC

mentat wrote: post #8

meesterdude wrote: post #6

> When I bought my first house, using money earned from co-founding a software company, I couldn’t believe that such abstract work could be exchanged for something so big and tangible, hewn from forests and rocks by people sweating in the sun. I've been writing software for years, and it still feels like magic. People work 3x as hard as me and I make 3x as much as them. Many make real, physical things; i just type aw…

The product of your work does more than 3x what you could do by yourself though, that's why it's valued more / differently. A similar argument would be made for effective organizers and the force multiplication of coordinated work.

Also programming skill is rare compared to the opportunity to apply it and this gives us negotiating power. In commerce, you don't get what you deserve; You get what you negotiate for.

Re: What Happens to Home Prices When Technologists Come to Town

#60

Post by Retra » Sat, Jun 20, 2015, 4:40 AM UTC

stephengillie wrote: post #19

meesterdude wrote: post #6

> When I bought my first house, using money earned from co-founding a software company, I couldn’t believe that such abstract work could be exchanged for something so big and tangible, hewn from forests and rocks by people sweating in the sun. I've been writing software for years, and it still feels like magic. People work 3x as hard as me and I make 3x as much as them. Many make real, physical things; i just type aw…

It embarrasses me that less physical effort grants me a more valuable reward. This probably just reflects my laborer upbringing. I put together a few lines today that automates a 5-minute process. Across the scope of a few thousand servers, this obviates about 6.25 weeks of labor. It really does feel magical.

The single most important human skill is mastery of language. You wouldn't even know what the word 'labor' means if your ancestors didn't know how to use language effectively. And that's what software is all about.