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Someone Stole My Startup Idea – Part 1: Are Those My Initials?

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Re: Someone Stole My Startup Idea – Part 1: Are Those My Initials?

#11

Post by clistctrl »

patio11 wrote: post #9
csbrooks wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, but I'm just not sure I would be able to let that stand, myself. And I tend to be a pretty calm and rational person. Anyway, I don't think he "screamed foul", he just pointed out a fact. If it's deeply embarrassing to the other party, that's because that embarrassment was richly deserved, in nearly any culture.

I have asked foreign clients the following question many, many times: in case they come into conflict, would you prefer me to choose the path which preserves your ego or your business interests? Most get the hint. (A close variation of the line works on Japanese people, too.)

you must be good

Re: Someone Stole My Startup Idea – Part 1: Are Those My Initials?

#12

Post by mahmud »

patio11 wrote: post #9
csbrooks wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, but I'm just not sure I would be able to let that stand, myself. And I tend to be a pretty calm and rational person. Anyway, I don't think he "screamed foul", he just pointed out a fact. If it's deeply embarrassing to the other party, that's because that embarrassment was richly deserved, in nearly any culture.

I have asked foreign clients the following question many, many times: in case they come into conflict, would you prefer me to choose the path which preserves your ego or your business interests? Most get the hint. (A close variation of the line works on Japanese people, too.)

In China I could be as frank as I needed to be with the business owners, they get it. But everyone beneath them had to be dealt with via signals and customs.

Same in the middle-east. It's an elaborate ceremony, communicating via intermediaries and exchanging pleasantries at dinners and formal gatherings, but as soon as you climb the ego ladder and reach the highest stakeholder you can drop ritual and say "dude, we're fucked". Sometimes you reach a very beneficial and logical agreement with The Man, then thinkup ways to rationalize it and explain it to the role-playing minions below him. Tradition and bureaucracy are often abused by selfish and incompetent people to keep status. (Once you reach the C-level contact, I recommend that you don't cut off his aides and minions; treat them as you have treated them before, when you needed access to him, that way they will not consider you a threat. As an exercise, go back to them for a few more "favors" and let them shake you up for bottles of scotch, it makes them feel in control, and when the boss has future plans with you, they "know" they will be treated.)

Re: Someone Stole My Startup Idea – Part 1: Are Those My Initials?

#13

Post by patio11 »

mahmud wrote: post #10
csbrooks wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, but I'm just not sure I would be able to let that stand, myself. And I tend to be a pretty calm and rational person. Anyway, I don't think he "screamed foul", he just pointed out a fact. If it's deeply embarrassing to the other party, that's because that embarrassment was richly deserved, in nearly any culture.

You win by saving others face. Grace is a natural gift that's hard to fake. He got up off his seat and walk to the board to see it up close, he saw it, but then he insisted his translator call it out on the guy. Bad things have been done to most people, but the ones you end up respecting the most are those who you see walk out, and take it with dignity, even though you know they're damn well capable of not only defen…

he insisted his translator call it out on the guy.

And, moreover, he did it in a way which caused the CEO no sense of social obligation to him. If you absolutely have to mention it, get both parties drunk prior to doing so, wait for the look of mortification, and say "Don't mention it. We're all on the same team here." The CEO now owes you a favor.

Re: Someone Stole My Startup Idea – Part 1: Are Those My Initials?

#14

Post by patio11 »

The interpreter’s face went white, and after a lot of “I can’t tell him that,” he did.

I used to work as a translator/interpreter, among other duties, at a technology incubator in central Japan. Technical interpreters are expensive -- the best have hourly rates comparable to lawyers. They are paid that much because they bring in far more than their hourly in business deals saved from disastrous miscommunication. If your interpreter is trying to wave you off a topic, you might consider taking the advice you are paying so dearly for. (Incidentally, we're told that the canon of professional ethics requires translating every word without failure, so "You really don't want to say that!" should be a pretty big red flag to you that you are about to step in something.)

Re: Someone Stole My Startup Idea – Part 1: Are Those My Initials?

#17

Post by jonny_noog »

patio11 wrote: post #14

The interpreter’s face went white, and after a lot of “I can’t tell him that,” he did. I used to work as a translator/interpreter, among other duties, at a technology incubator in central Japan. Technical interpreters are expensive -- the best have hourly rates comparable to lawyers. They are paid that much because they bring in far more than their hourly in business deals saved from disastrous miscommunication. If y…

I can't say I would have done any differently than he did, putting myself in his situation, regardless of the interpreter's advice.

Handle the situation with as much diplomacy as possible once the issue has been brought up, sure. But I'll be fucked if I'm going to sit in a meeting while the presenter uses my slide containing a "chart I had laboured over for months" to illustrate his company's strategy, while passing it off as their own.

"We weren’t sure if we should feel insulted or complimented, but after a few deep breaths (and a lot of kicking under the table by my head of business development) my smart VP of business development used it as an opportunity to point out how honored we were that there was an obvious strategic alignment between the two companies."

And there's an example of the diplomacy I was speaking of. I'd be fine putting a spin like that on it if required, for the sake of maintaining the relationship. But no way would I sit there and smile without saying a word.

Re: Someone Stole My Startup Idea – Part 1: Are Those My Initials?

#18

Post by ErrantX »

jonny_noog wrote: post #17
patio11 wrote: post #14

The interpreter’s face went white, and after a lot of “I can’t tell him that,” he did. I used to work as a translator/interpreter, among other duties, at a technology incubator in central Japan. Technical interpreters are expensive -- the best have hourly rates comparable to lawyers. They are paid that much because they bring in far more than their hourly in business deals saved from disastrous miscommunication. If y…

I can't say I would have done any differently than he did, putting myself in his situation, regardless of the interpreter's advice. Handle the situation with as much diplomacy as possible once the issue has been brought up, sure. But I'll be fucked if I'm going to sit in a meeting while the presenter uses my slide containing a "chart I had laboured over for months" to illustrate his company's strategy, while passing…

Im not sure I agree to be honest; indeed it looks like salvaging the situation rather than diplomacy.

In that situation they handled it really poorly and both sides lost an incredibly amount of face. My understanding of cultural stuff in Asia is above average but not complete: I do know enough, though, to say that a continued business relationship was an incredibly lucky outcome all round.

Re: Someone Stole My Startup Idea – Part 1: Are Those My Initials?

#19

Post by Poiesis »

patio11 wrote: post #9
csbrooks wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps, but I'm just not sure I would be able to let that stand, myself. And I tend to be a pretty calm and rational person. Anyway, I don't think he "screamed foul", he just pointed out a fact. If it's deeply embarrassing to the other party, that's because that embarrassment was richly deserved, in nearly any culture.

I have asked foreign clients the following question many, many times: in case they come into conflict, would you prefer me to choose the path which preserves your ego or your business interests? Most get the hint. (A close variation of the line works on Japanese people, too.)

(A close variation of the line works in non-business interpersonal relationships, too.)

Re: Someone Stole My Startup Idea – Part 1: Are Those My Initials?

#20

Post by jonny_noog »

ErrantX wrote: post #18
jonny_noog wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't say I would have done any differently than he did, putting myself in his situation, regardless of the interpreter's advice. Handle the situation with as much diplomacy as possible once the issue has been brought up, sure. But I'll be fucked if I'm going to sit in a meeting while the presenter uses my slide containing a "chart I had laboured over for months" to illustrate his company's strategy, while passing…

Im not sure I agree to be honest; indeed it looks like salvaging the situation rather than diplomacy. In that situation they handled it really poorly and both sides lost an incredibly amount of face. My understanding of cultural stuff in Asia is above average but not complete: I do know enough, though, to say that a continued business relationship was an incredibly lucky outcome all round.

Im not sure I agree to be honest; indeed it looks like salvaging the situation rather than diplomacy.

I would tend to agree, but I guess my definition of diplomacy includes salvaging situations. My kind of diplomacy isn't all roses and puppies.

Half my family is Asian (though not Japanese), I have a personal interest in Japanese culture and I'm generally aware of the cultural differences between East and West. Irrespective, I still would not sit tight in a meeting and smile while someone passes off my work as their own, regardless of how much face is at stake. I wouldn't much enjoy living with myself after such an episode.

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