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Diet that mimics fasting appears to slow aging

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Re: Diet that mimics fasting appears to slow aging

#281

Post by tallon »

hathawsh wrote: post #19

The authors disclosed they have equity in a company called L-Nutra, which intends to sell diet food packs: http://www.l-nutra.com/index.php/products/prolon Nothing for sale yet, but hopefully the price will be competitive with do-it-yourselfers. I am cautiously optimistic about this direction.

"V.D.L. and T.E.M. have equity interest in L-Nutra, a company that develops medical food. 100% of the L-Nutra equity belonging to V.D.L. will be donated to non-profit organizations. Neither author had any role in data analysis."

from the paper.

VDL is the PI though.

Re: Diet that mimics fasting appears to slow aging

#282

Post by aviv »

abrookewood wrote: post #257
aviv wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I lost 35 pounds. I didn't measure anything else, and since ending the fast 2 months ago I regained about 5 pounds. For several weeks following the fast I only ate fruits and veggies which is why I think the weight gain has been so little compared to those who fast and then resume their old diet fairly quickly. Also, in the first 48 hours of the fast I did a rather extensive physical workout program which is meant to…

Is this safe? How do you know what your limits are? I thought around 21 days you were at the point of starvation? What about your weight? How over weight are you (if you don't mind me asking)? I'm assuming someone with a normal BMI couldn't do something like this for so long???

Just about anyone can do it safely, with the exception of people with very specific health situations. Even very skinny people who need to but cannot gain weight seem to reverse that trend following a prolonged fast. The body is very smart in turning a prolonged fast into a series of corrective actions needed to maintain its own well being.

For two years prior to this fast I suffered from mild pain in my left knee which made it very difficult to get up from the floor or run for more than a few minutes. Two weeks into the fast, that knee began to hurt like crazy. By day 16 I was unable to bend it. But that was somewhat expected. Many peopl who undertake a prolonged fast report what is referred to as a "healing crisis"- when the body is in a state of self healing during which pre-existing symptoms flare up as the body works to get rid of them.

Who knows what I had in my knee. Gout, pre arthritis, some nasty build up of fluids... Either way, it's all gone. After 3 days of being unable to stand or even slightly bend that knee - it all disappeared. I woke up on day 19 and it was as if I had a new knee. All symptoms are gone since then and I have resumed my hiking and biking activities and am glad I let it heal itself.

And to answer your other question, at 5'9 I weighted 182 at the beginning of the fast and 147 on day 23. I wasn't terribly overweight, and now at my ideal weight.

And day 21 is far from being at the point of true starvation. That doesn't normally happen until at least day 45.

Re: Diet that mimics fasting appears to slow aging

#283

Post by nitrogen »

rquantz wrote: post #272
nitrogen wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be careful not to assume that all of a group's practices are healthy just because one practice happens to be healthy. Also be careful not to assume that such a practice being healthy means that all of the group's claims are valid. As a meta note, in general, it's probably bad form to bring up religion on HN in unrelated threads, especially in a subtly proselytizing way.

Look, I'm an atheist, and I think religion is mostly a bad thing for humanity. But you are off-base here. The parent was in no way proselytizing. It was apropos to the current discussion. Are you so sensitive that you can't handle someone mentioning that they have a religion ?

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the culture of the particular religion mentioned. Every member is expected to proselytize at every oppprtunity. They are told by their leaders to "plant seeds" everywhere, and to use social media to spread their gospel. Every mention has an ulterior motive. Trust me, I used to do exactly the same things.

It's a particularly insidious strategy because anyone who catches on and speaks out will be accused of being overly sensitive.

Re: Diet that mimics fasting appears to slow aging

#284

Post by aviv »

eru wrote: post #238
aviv wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the OP, but when I fasted I only drank water, usually distilled. You don't eat anything, hence the term water fasting. I should mention that I personally got weekly blood tests to keep track of the vitals (especially potassium levels) and this is something you definitely should do especially if it's your first prolonged fast.

Interesting. Why did you stick to distilled water, as opposed to having some (non-caloric) electrolytes?

Most people do not reach a point where their electrolyte levels are dangerously low when undertaking a prolonged fast of up to 40-45 days. Low levels of electrolytes are an indication that your body is unable to continue in a fasting state for one of several reasons, and it must be stopped.

IMO, artificially supplementing those during the fast will throw off your body's sensors if you will of knowing when something is abnormal.

Re: Diet that mimics fasting appears to slow aging

#285

Post by swsieber »

nitrogen wrote: post #283
rquantz wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, I'm an atheist, and I think religion is mostly a bad thing for humanity. But you are off-base here. The parent was in no way proselytizing. It was apropos to the current discussion. Are you so sensitive that you can't handle someone mentioning that they have a religion ?

Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the culture of the particular religion mentioned. Every member is expected to proselytize at every oppprtunity. They are told by their leaders to "plant seeds" everywhere, and to use social media to spread their gospel. Every mention has an ulterior motive. Trust me, I used to do exactly the same things. It's a particularly insidious strategy because anyone who catches on and speaks ou…

You are right that we have a culture of missionary work. And my post probably does double as subtle proselytizing (Props on using the right word - Mormons have come up with some not quite word).

On the other hand, my comment seemed completely appropriate. My other comments hacker news make no mention of, although in them you can see I have principles and I do quote religious leaders once in a while (twice besides this I think), generally unattributed, and paraphrased/adjusted for clarity. I'll leave it to you to decide whether I'm here to preach or not.

Re: Diet that mimics fasting appears to slow aging

#286

Post by voidlogic »

CuriouslyC wrote: post #185
voidlogic wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Also, protein as a nutrient creates a similar insulin response as carbs. If you look at graphs comparing them you will see protein is greatly blunted compared to carbs. The body being in ketosis is primarily medicated by the availability of liver glycogen, temporarily insulin spikes will at worst only pause ketosis. Protein can be converted to glucose via gluconeogenesis, but (compared to felines) the human body can…

Actually, it depends on the protein. In particular, proteins rich in the amino acid Leucine (such as whey) are actually more insulinogenic calorie for calorie than white bread.

I was referring the blood glucose, that is what matters. Insulin spikes are short term in regards to their effects on ketosis and can be useful for nutritional transport and promoting anabolism while on a ketogenic diet.

Re: Diet that mimics fasting appears to slow aging

#287

Post by fezz »

abrookewood wrote: post #255
fezz wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've done 3, 5, 11 and 20 day fasts. The first 3 days are the hardest but once you get over that hump it's pretty easy. The senses heighten and you become very alert (when you're not napping). I haven't done it in a while because you need to free to nap whenever you feel like it.

What type of fasting did you do? I've done 5 day water fasts before, but I don't know how comfortable I would feel extending that to 11 or 20 days!

Water and tea.

Re: Diet that mimics fasting appears to slow aging

#288

Post by fezz »

justinpaulson wrote: post #176
js2 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much weight did you lose over this period? With a TDEE of 2400 cal/day, you'd theoretically lose almost 5 lbs/week, though I imagine your metabolism slows down. Still, I'd guess you lost 10-15 lbs? Did you happen to get measures of your body fat pct before and after?

Not OP, but in 25 days of water fasting I lost 30 pounds. 196 -> 166. I gained about 15 lbs back within a week after I stopped fasting, then settled in the mid 180s. I did not measure body fat percentages, but I could tell I was losing just as much muscle mass as fat by the second week.

No OP also... I was about 1-1.5 lbs a day once you get past the first 3 days.

Another method I've done is a net-zero where I eat say 600 calories and run a few miles so there's not as much muscle loss.

Re: Diet that mimics fasting appears to slow aging

#289

Post by js2 »

aviv wrote: post #196
js2 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much weight did you lose over this period? With a TDEE of 2400 cal/day, you'd theoretically lose almost 5 lbs/week, though I imagine your metabolism slows down. Still, I'd guess you lost 10-15 lbs? Did you happen to get measures of your body fat pct before and after?

I lost 35 pounds. I didn't measure anything else, and since ending the fast 2 months ago I regained about 5 pounds. For several weeks following the fast I only ate fruits and veggies which is why I think the weight gain has been so little compared to those who fast and then resume their old diet fairly quickly. Also, in the first 48 hours of the fast I did a rather extensive physical workout program which is meant to…

Thanks for the info. I'm interested in fasting just because I like to do these sorts of experiments. I fast once a year for 24 hours and I'm pretty hungry by the end... so I'm not sure I have the resolve to go through the hunger pangs much longer than that. How long do those last?

My other concern is that I run 50+ miles/week and I assume that would be impossible while fasting. I'd also be bummed about loss of muscle mass.

Re: Diet that mimics fasting appears to slow aging

#290

Post by js2 »

fezz wrote: post #288
justinpaulson wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but in 25 days of water fasting I lost 30 pounds. 196 -> 166. I gained about 15 lbs back within a week after I stopped fasting, then settled in the mid 180s. I did not measure body fat percentages, but I could tell I was losing just as much muscle mass as fat by the second week.

No OP also... I was about 1-1.5 lbs a day once you get past the first 3 days. Another method I've done is a net-zero where I eat say 600 calories and run a few miles so there's not as much muscle loss.

It's generally accepted that a deficit of 3500 calories causes 1 lb of weight loss. And most men burn around 2000-2400 calories day. So 1 lb (much less 1.5) surprises me. I wonder why the math doesn't quite add up.

I like the net-zero approach. Do you make those 600 cals primarily from protein? BTW, it's about 100-120 cals/mile typically. (I'm a runner and use 100 cals/mile since the math is easier and close enough.)

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