Diet that mimics fasting appears to slow aging • Hacker News Board

Re: Diet that mimics fasting appears to slow aging

#271

Post by tosseraccount » Fri, Jun 19, 2015, 2:29 PM UTC

reasonattlm wrote: post #46

tosseraccount wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you tl;dr , please. Does adjuvant therapy in the form of fasting affect survival in clinical trials in cancer patients? Is this proven and accepted?

Sure. It's a thing. See this: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2815756/ "Proven" is of course a continuum rather than a binary state. There's plenty of evidence to suggest that calorie restriction and fasting are beneficial across the board, and in cancer, and specifically as adjuvants. Getting that past the FDA as an official approved treatment is still ongoing, I believe. Most likely because "eating less…

The evidence is weak.

In those patients whose cancer progression could be assessed, fasting did not prevent the chemotherapy-induced reduction of tumor volume or tumor markers. Although the 10 cases presented here suggest that fasting in combination with chemotherapy is feasible, safe, and has the potential to ameliorate side effects caused by chemotherapies, they are not meant to establish practice guidelines for patients undergoing chemotherapy. Only controlled-randomized clinical trials will determine the effect of fasting on clinical outcomes including quality of life and therapeutic index.

Re: Diet that mimics fasting appears to slow aging

#272

Post by rquantz » Fri, Jun 19, 2015, 2:38 PM UTC

nitrogen wrote: post #177

swsieber wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. My religion teaches it (along with some other healthy things). It was actually reiterated very recently ( https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2015/04/is-not-this-t... ). The emphasis is much less on the health benefits but they are none-the-less talked about from time to time. I think part of it that doing it a couple of times help reduce the extreme biological need. Also, when did you finish your fast? Dinne…

Be careful not to assume that all of a group's practices are healthy just because one practice happens to be healthy. Also be careful not to assume that such a practice being healthy means that all of the group's claims are valid. As a meta note, in general, it's probably bad form to bring up religion on HN in unrelated threads, especially in a subtly proselytizing way.

Look, I'm an atheist, and I think religion is mostly a bad thing for humanity. But you are off-base here. The parent was in no way proselytizing. It was apropos to the current discussion. Are you so sensitive that you can't handle someone mentioning that they have a religion?

Re: Diet that mimics fasting appears to slow aging

#273

Post by __z » Fri, Jun 19, 2015, 3:12 PM UTC

VeejayRampay wrote: post #219

__z wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a lot of experience fasting. All the stuff that you mention is complete BS. Theres always hunger and no hyper-alert focused BS.

Please don't do that. If you're going to come here and engage in a debate/conversation with someone, try to be civil and avoid resorting to words like "complete BS" and an overall aggressive tone. You'd convey the exact same idea with "There's no scientific evidence for the phenomenons you report and as with someone with experience fasting, I haven't ever experienced it" and it wouldn't create an atmosphere of unneed…

I don't know about the science, nor do I care, I am speaking of my own experiences. Experiences other than "I never felt hungry and I had nothing but energy after a couple of days" are discounted and hidden when speaking about fasting by the people who support it. It has taken a life of its own and spoken as fact. Other experiences need to be heard too and we need to acknowledge there is a wide range of people who have a wide range of experiences and people can have different reactions and that's ok. The ones who don't have such experiences need to be welcomed too.

People do speak a lot of BS when it comes to fasting.

I guess my comment was more of a reaction from being attacked for my experiences fasting, not here but elsewhere. That's why I no longer spend time those places. It did come out wrong in retrospect and reactionary.

Re: Diet that mimics fasting appears to slow aging

#274

Post by swsieber » Fri, Jun 19, 2015, 3:23 PM UTC

nitrogen wrote: post #195

tracker1 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that a lot of dietary traditions can be rooted in some level of observational benefit... for instance pigs are one of the few animals that can cross-carry viruses between humans and other species, and a lot of mutation happens in them. Not that all things are necessarily proven out, but a lot of them are. Though, I do think there are also a lot of logical fallacies propagated as "faith". Just the same, I don'…

No doubt good and bad ideas can be found in all places, and some portion of religious and cultural superstitions may be emergent (or deliberate) results of real phenomena (e.g. avoiding pork because the last guy you saw eat pork got sick). Fortunately we now have science, which basically amounts to a hill climbing algorithm for identifying valid and rejecting invalid ideas over time. I'll note that I was once extreme…

I really like your statement that science is a hill climbing algorithm (with the ability to get away from local maximums). I think it's important to note that science isn't always right, but if it's not there currently, it's working on it and will get there.

Re: Diet that mimics fasting appears to slow aging

#275

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jun 19, 2015, 3:23 PM UTC

nitrogen wrote: post #195

tracker1 wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that a lot of dietary traditions can be rooted in some level of observational benefit... for instance pigs are one of the few animals that can cross-carry viruses between humans and other species, and a lot of mutation happens in them. Not that all things are necessarily proven out, but a lot of them are. Though, I do think there are also a lot of logical fallacies propagated as "faith". Just the same, I don'…

No doubt good and bad ideas can be found in all places, and some portion of religious and cultural superstitions may be emergent (or deliberate) results of real phenomena (e.g. avoiding pork because the last guy you saw eat pork got sick). Fortunately we now have science, which basically amounts to a hill climbing algorithm for identifying valid and rejecting invalid ideas over time. I'll note that I was once extreme…

[deleted]

Re: Diet that mimics fasting appears to slow aging

#276

Post by shanev » Fri, Jun 19, 2015, 3:28 PM UTC

Ntrails wrote: post #244

shanev wrote: post #194

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An easy way to fast frequently is to just skip breakfast everyday. Then you automatically get a 16+ hour fast and keep your eating to a short window during the day. This helps kick in autophagy [1], a process whereby our cells repair themselves; a garbage collector for our body if you will. This is most likely the process the scientists are observing as slowed down aging. It's not really a foreign topic as there's 39…

So, I tend to skip dinner as it lets me sleep through the parts where I'm hungry :p My real question is why would breakfast be optimal? Dinner for me would typically be a bigger meal and at a time when I'm most inactive (and will be for another 10-12 hours)

Skipping dinner would work too. I don't know which is more optimal. Skipping breakfast just works better for me.

Re: Diet that mimics fasting appears to slow aging

#277

Post by __z » Fri, Jun 19, 2015, 3:32 PM UTC

heimatau wrote: post #269

tjradcliffe wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what are the LD50's of those "toxins"? This is my first question to people who go on about "toxins" and "detox" and "cleansing". I don't want an exact number, just a ballpark. Is it micrograms, milligrams or grams per kg body mass? Surely these people who know so very much about "toxins" must know the one fact that distinguishes the things we informally call toxic from the ones we don't. It would be the hieght of…

"Toxins" could be a poor word choice on my part. But our body can be slowed down with the modern food we eat, the poor environments we live in, and genetic predisposition. I think fasting is a way to remove road blocks in our body, for whatever reason they appeared. But to be clear, I think a lifestyle of eating fruits and veggies is more effective than fasts, when trying to achieve this. There are a lot of medical,…

Absolutely nothing you said supports the notion that toxins are looming in fat and losing fat releases them and makes you fell sick - which is exactly what you said. When questioned about this you just changed the subject to something completely different.

I'll ask again - Which specific toxins are stored in your fat? Its a simple question.

Re: Diet that mimics fasting appears to slow aging

#278

Post by squids » Fri, Jun 19, 2015, 3:34 PM UTC

shanev wrote: post #194

hathawsh wrote: post #19

The authors disclosed they have equity in a company called L-Nutra, which intends to sell diet food packs: http://www.l-nutra.com/index.php/products/prolon Nothing for sale yet, but hopefully the price will be competitive with do-it-yourselfers. I am cautiously optimistic about this direction.

An easy way to fast frequently is to just skip breakfast everyday. Then you automatically get a 16+ hour fast and keep your eating to a short window during the day. This helps kick in autophagy [1], a process whereby our cells repair themselves; a garbage collector for our body if you will. This is most likely the process the scientists are observing as slowed down aging. It's not really a foreign topic as there's 39…

I used to think this but then I read a few studies showing larger breakfast breaking the overnight fast result in better blood sugar/insulin/body fat scores.

In comparison to intermittent fasting, chronic fasting/starvation everyday like you're doing is probably not good for your body. It responds by keeping more bodyfat to last you through your 16 hr window, giving you a belly and raising your insulin when you start eating.

It seems the best balance for insulin/optimum bmi is a large breakfast, medium lunch and small dinner http://www.nhs.uk/news/2013/08August/Pages/Is-breakfast-the-...

Re: Diet that mimics fasting appears to slow aging

#279

Post by __z » Fri, Jun 19, 2015, 3:57 PM UTC

eru wrote: post #211

__z wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, God. Where did this meme come from? I have fasted for 5 days and never wasn't hungry. The hunger severity comes and goes, just like anything but I was still hungry!!! I fast pretty regularly for a day here and there. Used to do it every 4 days but fell off the bandwagon. Have done plenty of 2 day fasts too. This is one of the silliest things said about fasting - and that is saying a lot. Never had all this energy…

Perhaps it has different impacts on different people?

I'm sure it is but this meme has taken a life of its own as the only true experience.

Re: Diet that mimics fasting appears to slow aging

#280

Post by heimatau » Fri, Jun 19, 2015, 4:08 PM UTC

__z wrote: post #277

heimatau wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Toxins" could be a poor word choice on my part. But our body can be slowed down with the modern food we eat, the poor environments we live in, and genetic predisposition. I think fasting is a way to remove road blocks in our body, for whatever reason they appeared. But to be clear, I think a lifestyle of eating fruits and veggies is more effective than fasts, when trying to achieve this. There are a lot of medical,…

Absolutely nothing you said supports the notion that toxins are looming in fat and losing fat releases them and makes you fell sick - which is exactly what you said. When questioned about this you just changed the subject to something completely different. I'll ask again - Which specific toxins are stored in your fat? Its a simple question.

I don't have an answer for specific 'toxins', as the way I worded things is based on experience.

All I do know is that fasting has tremendous benefits to our bodies, which is based on science (most papers speak of 12 hours to three days; rarely longer). As for the granular details (answering the 'how' and 'why' questions), I'm not certain science has a definitive answer for that. My perspective is that, subjective.

Also, the tone of your comments are a bit harsh. If it's a simple question, well, cite the scientific papers that establish your point of view. Contraction point of views aren't constructive, what's your more scientifically established idea, as it relates to the benefits (or lack thereof) of fasting?