Ask HN: As an employer, what do you wish applicants did more often? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: As an employer, what do you wish applicants did more often?

#31

Post by sokoloff » Thu, Dec 03, 2009, 1:38 PM UTC

evansolomon wrote: post #21

drusenko wrote: post #11

From a startup company's perspective (hiring a web developer): - Any effort you make to show interest in the company goes a long way. Use the software, come prepared to talk about what you did/didn't like, and have questions for me. Are you interested in working here? Then you should be full of questions! - Have a personal home page. Doesn't have to be flashy, but it should suit its purpose. An appealing website is n…

I do lots of hiring for technical positions (marketing and other business-y tasks) but I couldn't agree more with these two points, and I think they are relevant no matter what job you are applying for. They really make a HUGE difference in whether or not I pay attention enough to remember you, which in turn is probably the biggest factor in how likely I am to hire you. - Any effort you make to show interest in the c…

I don't usually mention where I work, but it's very relevant to this point about showing interest in the company. (I run IT for Vistaprint.)

I was interviewing someone for a mid-level systems engineering position, and the interview seemed to be going well-enough. I always wrap up with a few minutes for the candidate to ask questions about the company, and the only question this candidate had was "Have you guys ever considered building a website where people can design and order business cards?"

Blink; blink; WTF? Uh, yeah, we did about $250M in business that way last year, so I'd say we've given it some thought.

An employer is going into the interview with some need that they're hoping you can fill. That need is almost certainly not "I need to make sure the next person in the door can pay rent and buy food." so you shouldn't go into the interview focused on that either. By all means, you have your own set of needs that you need filled, but in the interview, focus on the employer's need, not your own.

Re: Ask HN: As an employer, what do you wish applicants did more often?

#32

Post by DanielBMarkham » Thu, Dec 03, 2009, 1:39 PM UTC

edw519 wrote: post #30

When I hire, I'm not looking for a person or a resource. I'm looking for a solution to my problem. Sometimes that problem is big, sometimes it's urgent. But there's always a problem needing to be solved. The more a candidate looks like a solution to my problem, the closer to the front of the pile he/she gets. AFAIC, the most important thing for any candidate to do is to identify my problem(s) and present themselves a…

Good advice.

You can also play the old mentalist trick.

The mentalist knows nothing of his audience, yet it appears he has amazing powers of telepathy.

How does he do it?

He throws out a lot of information, then closely watches for a response, keying off of positive responses from the subject. As he gets more and more subvocal, body-language, and affirmations from his subject, he closes in on information that only the subject knows.

You can do the same thing in an interview. When asked a question, tell a story about how you solved a problem (which is why you're there) While telling it, listen closely for clues that you have touched on something of value. If you hear them, next time you tell a story keep close to that sore spot. Usually over a period of six or seven questions you can hone in on what the problem is while reassuring the interviewer with stories that you know how to help them.

Re: Ask HN: As an employer, what do you wish applicants did more often?

#33

Post by adnam » Thu, Dec 03, 2009, 1:41 PM UTC

keyist wrote: post #5

I do technical hiring for my company. Here's a bunch of things that I personally like to see -- may not apply to larger, non-startup employers though. * mention in the initial e-mail whether you're applying as local or remote * mention in the initial e-mail your availability (immediate, two weeks on notification, etc) * have a non-generic cover letter/e-mail that shows me you spent at least a couple minutes finding o…

> if asked to provide code in an archive, don't splatter files inside my pwd

I think that displays the typical pickiness of people that do hiring. I mean, you could just type 'unzip -l' to check the contents of an archive. Similarly, the resume format. Practically every hirer requires a different format nowadays - pdf/txt/doc/odt/html - that simply maintaining a CV becomes a massive time sink.

Re: Ask HN: As an employer, what do you wish applicants did more often?

#34

Post by citizenparker » Thu, Dec 03, 2009, 1:49 PM UTC

I read resumes all the time, a few tips:

* At your level of experience, you should ABSOLUTELY have only one page. If your LinkedIn profile is a reflection of your current resume, there's a fair amount you can cut from that if you need to make room. Things like "Tool was eventually taken up by QA team" isn't terribly relevant, and the BCCampus Research Assistant unfortunately sounds a bit like fluff.

* Don't expect anyone to have given your resume more than a cursory overview. Instead, plan on that and make sure that your most important bullet points stand out on the page. You can do this by re-ordering your information or by varying your whitespace, verbs used, and sentence length.

* Think about implementing a template from http://www.oswd.org/ for your personal website. You may not have design skills (and even those majoring in design often lack them out of college), but at least show you can recognize good design and follow directions by implementing one of the free templates there

* I normally hate to flaunt my own stuff, but I wrote an article recently on some of my personal pet peeves on resumes - http://citizenparker.com/post/Spray-and-Pray-Developer-Resum...

I would be happy to give your resume a more in-depth review and follow-up with you personally. Get in touch on my website if you're interested. Either way, good luck and don't give up.

Re: Ask HN: As an employer, what do you wish applicants did more often?

#35

Post by hippee-lee » Thu, Dec 03, 2009, 1:55 PM UTC

potatolicious wrote: post #8

_l4lu wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in a similar situation as the author, looking for my first full-time job (I'm graduating this spring). So, I guess my opinion doesn't count for much. But I still think it's sad that someone's personal home page must be directed by the current perception of what's the "cool" thing to do (for that matter, using Dreamweaver is more what the "cool" thing was in the late 90s). A plain HTML page says "open-source hacke…

It's about differentiation. Sure, you're looking to get hired for your code chops - and your employer is looking to hire you for your code chops, but in a sea of new grads something has to make you stand out. Given that traditionally hackers have been very bad at design, UI, and aesthetics, being one who isn't blind to these virtues is very valuable indeed. And image is everything, especially when trying to get hired…

"do not expect companies to call you back, or be overly timely on most contacts."

So because thechnology gives us the excuse to be rude? Just opinion here, but if a business takes the time to bring a candidate in for a day of interviewing they are obligated to fnish the process which incldes delivering the bad news i they are not selected. I feel that anything less is bad manners and unprofessional, even if that has bcome the norm.

Re: Ask HN: As an employer, what do you wish applicants did more often?

#36

Post by dabent » Thu, Dec 03, 2009, 2:36 PM UTC

tyler wrote: post #17

What bothers me most is when a candidate gives off a "this is below me vibe". I tend to start with quick, easy questions and work toward much more difficult ones. Candidates often act as if answering these easier questions is below them... And then choke on the hard questions. To me, acting haughty is a good indication that you're going to be a pain to work with. You're going to make a fuss when asked to do easy work…

> I tend to start with quick, easy questions and work toward much more difficult ones.

I've noticed that trend in many interviews I've been in and had interviewers bluntly tell me they will keep asking harder questions until I miss one, so see my technical depth.

I've found that if you say you know language/api/framework X you had better be able to answer all the basics with concise answers in a friendly (non-condescending) tone. That may mean some studying and practice on the job hunter's part, but it pays off two ways: you're already ahead of the arrogant candidates and you may convince an interviewer you know your stuff quickly, so they skip the hard questions.

Re: Ask HN: As an employer, what do you wish applicants did more often?

#37

Post by edb » Thu, Dec 03, 2009, 2:40 PM UTC

edw519 wrote: post #30

When I hire, I'm not looking for a person or a resource. I'm looking for a solution to my problem. Sometimes that problem is big, sometimes it's urgent. But there's always a problem needing to be solved. The more a candidate looks like a solution to my problem, the closer to the front of the pile he/she gets. AFAIC, the most important thing for any candidate to do is to identify my problem(s) and present themselves a…

This also highlights the point that it is important as an employer to write good job descriptions as well. I find this point often neglected.

Re: Ask HN: As an employer, what do you wish applicants did more often?

#38

Post by ghotli » Thu, Dec 03, 2009, 2:40 PM UTC

fauigerzigerk wrote: post #18

ghotli wrote: post #9

Recently I interviewed roughly twenty candidates for a software development position. There were a handful of recurring things the candidates did that bothered me. If given a programming problem, don't stand/sit quietly while you work out the solution. Give the interviewer some insight to your thought processes. It would be nice if you could answer the question correctly. What would be best is if you can express to m…

Good points. But I think nobody can be genuinely interested in understanding what they don't currently understand during a job interview.

A valid point. Perhaps genuine interest is asking a bit much. Willingness to at least get a little enlightenment as to what the interview is talking about is what I'm looking for.

Re: Ask HN: As an employer, what do you wish applicants did more often?

#39

Post by keyist » Thu, Dec 03, 2009, 2:44 PM UTC

adnam wrote: post #33

keyist wrote: post #5

I do technical hiring for my company. Here's a bunch of things that I personally like to see -- may not apply to larger, non-startup employers though. * mention in the initial e-mail whether you're applying as local or remote * mention in the initial e-mail your availability (immediate, two weeks on notification, etc) * have a non-generic cover letter/e-mail that shows me you spent at least a couple minutes finding o…

> if asked to provide code in an archive, don't splatter files inside my pwd I think that displays the typical pickiness of people that do hiring. I mean, you could just type 'unzip -l' to check the contents of an archive. Similarly, the resume format. Practically every hirer requires a different format nowadays - pdf/txt/doc/odt/html - that simply maintaining a CV becomes a massive time sink.

Actually I specify tar.gz. This is actually a subtle test -- the job requires *NIX fluency and those who had ever compiled a few packages would have noticed the convention. That's my train of thought anyway.

As for resume format, it is an open source job and my main machines are all MS-free, so it is extra trouble (especially if it is docx). Just a preference, that's all. I didn't advertise otherwise.

Tip for maintaining multiple formats: asciidoc/markdown = text you can generate html with. And once you have html you can print to pdf from a browser. 3 formats for the price of one.

Bear in mind I wasn't trying to write a list that's canon -- just what I like to see. I'm not going to chuck applications simply because they missed a point in that list of recommendations.

Re: Ask HN: As an employer, what do you wish applicants did more often?

#40

Post by dabent » Thu, Dec 03, 2009, 2:46 PM UTC

DanielBMarkham wrote: post #32

edw519 wrote: post #30

When I hire, I'm not looking for a person or a resource. I'm looking for a solution to my problem. Sometimes that problem is big, sometimes it's urgent. But there's always a problem needing to be solved. The more a candidate looks like a solution to my problem, the closer to the front of the pile he/she gets. AFAIC, the most important thing for any candidate to do is to identify my problem(s) and present themselves a…

Good advice. You can also play the old mentalist trick. The mentalist knows nothing of his audience, yet it appears he has amazing powers of telepathy. How does he do it? He throws out a lot of information, then closely watches for a response, keying off of positive responses from the subject. As he gets more and more subvocal, body-language, and affirmations from his subject, he closes in on information that only th…

The key is to get them talking instead of you. That does help find what their pain points are, so you can address them as the mentalist above noted, but you also find out what they are really looking for so see if you're still interested.

Here's an example of what I mean. Suppose you're a Java/Struts developer historically, but have some serious Ruby on Rails experience recently. You come across a job listing for a RoR developer, with all the right RoR talk in the description with "experience with Java/Struts a plus" at the bottom.

You go into the interview and just nail all the RoR questions. They are happy, you're happy, and they ask you if you have any questions, so you ask them to describe their project. As you play mentalist you discover that they really are using Java 1.4 and Struts 1.38 and want someone to come on and maintain that old code while hoping that some day management will let them rewrite the whole app in RoR. They want you there in case management agrees and to "train" the others in RoR just in case it happens.

They extend you a job offer. You decline and go after a real RoR opportunity with a hot startup. Life is good.