Ellen Pao owes Kleiner Perkins $276,000 for lawsuit costs: judge • Hacker News Board

Re: Ellen Pao owes Kleiner Perkins $276,000 for lawsuit costs: judge

#151

Post by WalterGR » Thu, Jun 18, 2015, 4:24 AM UTC

jn1234 wrote: post #122

WalterGR wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Her offering a high or higher number doesn't imply that she was only out for cash. Perhaps that amount was what she considered sufficient to punish KP appropriately. And for the record: Consider this statement as me playing the race card. But look: I wasn't on the jury, and I haven't reviewed the court records, and like everyone else here I'm playing armchair quarterback.

If she wanted to punish KP, she should've said that she would donate whatever she wins minus legal bills to a charity.

You should contact her and let her know that that's the min bar.

Re: Ellen Pao owes Kleiner Perkins $276,000 for lawsuit costs: judge

#152

Post by rnovak » Thu, Jun 18, 2015, 4:32 AM UTC

obstinate wrote: post #68

rnovak wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get that people will probably disagree, but she just seems to not make very good business decisions. Maybe I'm way off base, but I've read a bunch of well qualified lawyers say that juries are just plain unpredictable, and that no competent lawyer can "guarantee" to win. In that light, even if the $1M settlement wasn't what you're asking for, I would think it paints a better picture of you than losing and having to…

This logic would basically forbid any lawsuit, no matter how meritorious. Leaving aside what you think her odds are, this isn't how it works. You have to balance the odds of each outcome, not just the absolute best and worst cases.

Aren't like 95%[0] of all cases settled before they even reach trial? To me it seems like that would indicate this logic isn't entirely flawed.

[0]http://thelawdictionary.org/article/what-percentage-of-lawsu...

Re: Ellen Pao owes Kleiner Perkins $276,000 for lawsuit costs: judge

#153

Post by hoopd » Thu, Jun 18, 2015, 4:38 AM UTC

obstinate wrote: post #141

hoopd wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe you only speak of the future of discourse because it's a deep sounding insult, but if you actually care I encourage you to read this essay and reconsider your acceptance of namecalling. http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html

I have read this essay a number of times. While I agree it is great, it has an assumption of good faith on the part of the counterparty that I find unsubstantiated in terms of sexists, including many of the anti-Pao folks in this thread. If your discourse consists mostly of repeating unsubstantiated rumors or outright falsehoods, or are otherwise laced with misogyny, like the induhviduals who have made comments about…

The reason to set a higher bar is this: in a heated debate where core beliefs are being challenged there will always a temptation to decide you're dealing with an idiot or a monster even when you aren't.

Re: Ellen Pao owes Kleiner Perkins $276,000 for lawsuit costs: judge

#154

Post by obstinate » Thu, Jun 18, 2015, 4:39 AM UTC

BinaryIdiot wrote: post #149

obstinate wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You said that women don't catch heat, which to me meant you thought they were treated well. To catch heat (without a cause) is to be mistreated, and it seemed to me as if you were saying this was not the case. My apologies if I misunderstood you.

> You said that women don't catch heat Please take a look at my original comment as I did not say that. Women catch heat all the time. All I said was, in my experience, I rarely see it when compared to all of the sexual harassment they receive. > To catch heat (without a cause) I haven't seen this phrase used without a "cause"; isn't that just an insult? Can you even "catch heat" without doing anything?

"I rarely see women get 'heat' on Reddit." -- You. I understand now that you were making a comparative statement, but at the time I believed you were making an absolute one.

Re: Ellen Pao owes Kleiner Perkins $276,000 for lawsuit costs: judge

#155

Post by robot22 » Thu, Jun 18, 2015, 4:55 AM UTC

Steko wrote: post #116

This thread provides a nice crash course in the mentality and tactics that KiA and related manbaby trolls and hate groups are polluting reddit/the Internet with. Every act of moderation is Ellen Pao's fault, here's a bunch of unsubstantiated FUD about how everyone who got moderated was innocent and we'll constantly repeat these peripheral allegations about her husband. It's incredibly transparent and shameless. "Down…

Disappointing that you view all criticisms against Ellen Pao as inherently sexist. I think if anything people would be just as critical of her if she was a guy. Who appoints a lawyer to run Reddit?

Re: Ellen Pao owes Kleiner Perkins $276,000 for lawsuit costs: judge

#156

Post by obstinate » Thu, Jun 18, 2015, 4:57 AM UTC

hoopd wrote: post #153

obstinate wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have read this essay a number of times. While I agree it is great, it has an assumption of good faith on the part of the counterparty that I find unsubstantiated in terms of sexists, including many of the anti-Pao folks in this thread. If your discourse consists mostly of repeating unsubstantiated rumors or outright falsehoods, or are otherwise laced with misogyny, like the induhviduals who have made comments about…

The reason to set a higher bar is this: in a heated debate where core beliefs are being challenged there will always a temptation to decide you're dealing with an idiot or a monster even when you aren't.

I understand the theory. I do not believe that this is the optimal approach in practice.

Re: Ellen Pao owes Kleiner Perkins $276,000 for lawsuit costs: judge

#157

Post by javert » Thu, Jun 18, 2015, 5:21 AM UTC

Steko wrote: post #65

javert wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because banning certain reddits is a value to no-one and a disvalue to everyone. It does not add value to me to have subreddits Ellen Pao personally disagrees with be banned. Rather, it takes away value. And now that the precedent has been set, the same will be the case with future reddit leadership.

Banning hate and harrassment subreddits has value to many people.

I agree with banning subreddits that actually go outside their own subreddit to harass people. Otherwise, I don't.

Re: Ellen Pao owes Kleiner Perkins $276,000 for lawsuit costs: judge

#158

Post by thaumaturgy » Thu, Jun 18, 2015, 5:22 AM UTC

krschultz wrote: post #115

pushnpop wrote: post #98

Chairwoman Pao owes every penny. She was not discriminated against because she is a woman, she was discriminated against because she is a terrible employee, venture capitalist, and person. She sued Kleiner because she wanted to pay off the debt her scumbag husband owes for fraud. http://www.vanityfair.com/style/scandal/2013/03/buddy-fletch...

Go back to reddit. This comment is over the line. Your other comment in this discussion is even worse. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9736628

HN has been prominently mentioned as an alternative to Reddit lately in a lot of the Pao-related threads ... I think we're going to be seeing a lot more Reddit behavior here, unfortunately.

Re: Ellen Pao owes Kleiner Perkins $276,000 for lawsuit costs: judge

#159

Post by danbolt » Thu, Jun 18, 2015, 5:50 AM UTC

obstinate wrote: post #156

hoopd wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason to set a higher bar is this: in a heated debate where core beliefs are being challenged there will always a temptation to decide you're dealing with an idiot or a monster even when you aren't.

I understand the theory. I do not believe that this is the optimal approach in practice.

If you don't mind me asking, perhaps you could give a reason why you feel this isn't always the optimal approach?

I can certainly understand that it's not exactly the most pleasant thing to do at times, but I feel as though it's an ideal where the side effects of striving for it are beneficial. It would mean a lot of me to hear your take on it.

Re: Ellen Pao owes Kleiner Perkins $276,000 for lawsuit costs: judge

#160

Post by obstinate » Thu, Jun 18, 2015, 5:57 AM UTC

danbolt wrote: post #159

obstinate wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand the theory. I do not believe that this is the optimal approach in practice.

If you don't mind me asking, perhaps you could give a reason why you feel this isn't always the optimal approach? I can certainly understand that it's not exactly the most pleasant thing to do at times, but I feel as though it's an ideal where the side effects of striving for it are beneficial. It would mean a lot of me to hear your take on it.

Of course I do not mind. I believe ostracization and marginalization have historically been more effective for this type of objectionable opinion. The main differentiating factor is that misogyny is not rooted in reason. Thus, reason is an ineffective tool for attacking it, especially on the internet.