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Ellen Pao owes Kleiner Perkins $276,000 for lawsuit costs: judge

reuters.com

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Re: Ellen Pao owes Kleiner Perkins $276,000 for lawsuit costs: judge

#81

Post by monochromatic »

pixel wrote: post #42
phkahler wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is there any award at all? I keep hearing that defending a case can bankrupt a person or company that doesn't have deep pockets even if they are successful. Why do these guys get reimbursed?

Why does she have to pay the legal fees incurred by the defendants because she tried to extort money? Is that what you're asking? She has to pay because she lost, and they weren't doing anything wrong.

No, that's generally not enough. The U.S. courts generally follow the American Rule, not the English Rule.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_rule_%28attorney%27s_...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_rule_%28attorney%27s_f...

Re: Ellen Pao owes Kleiner Perkins $276,000 for lawsuit costs: judge

#82

Post by gooeyblob »

javert wrote: post #52
gooeyblob wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is she ruining reddit?

Because banning certain reddits is a value to no-one and a disvalue to everyone. It does not add value to me to have subreddits Ellen Pao personally disagrees with be banned. Rather, it takes away value. And now that the precedent has been set, the same will be the case with future reddit leadership.

Do you really think Ellen came in one day from a mountain on high and decreed "these subreddits shall be banned"? What planet are you from that you think a company is run that way?

Re: Ellen Pao owes Kleiner Perkins $276,000 for lawsuit costs: judge

#84

Post by dctoedt »

phkahler wrote: post #12
minimaxir wrote: post #6

If the cost of work is $229k, and the reward is $276k, then why is there a $47k difference? Making the defendants whole?

Why is there any award at all? I keep hearing that defending a case can bankrupt a person or company that doesn't have deep pockets even if they are successful. Why do these guys get reimbursed?

> Why do these guys [Kleiner Perkins] get reimbursed?

From the Reuters report, it appears that Kleiner made an offer of judgment under section 998 of the California Code of Civil Procedure, [1] which provides in part:

(c) (1) If an offer made by a defendant is not accepted and the plaintiff fails to obtain a more favorable judgment or award, the plaintiff shall not recover his or her postoffer costs and shall pay the defendant's costs from the time of the offer.

In addition, in any action or proceeding other than an eminent domain action, the court or arbitrator, in its discretion, may require the plaintiff to pay a reasonable sum to cover costs of the services of expert witnesses, who are not regular employees of any party, actually incurred and reasonably necessary in either, or both, preparation for trial or arbitration, or during trial or arbitration, of the case by the defendant.

(Emphasis and extra paragraphing added)

"Costs," incidentally, means costs of court such as filing fees, court reporter charges, etc. [2] In this case, by statute (quoted above) the term also include expert witness fees. "Costs" usually does not include attorneys' fees.

[1] http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=ccp&gr...

[2] http://dictionary.law.com/Default.aspx?selected=382

Re: Ellen Pao owes Kleiner Perkins $276,000 for lawsuit costs: judge

#85

Post by MichaelGG »

cjensen wrote: post #66
atorralb wrote: post #51

One thing is for sure, Ellen Pao is not liked in Reddit.

Because of the ban on groups which actively harass others? Or is there another reason?

The summary I read basically had a few reasons. First that her lawsuit was rather manipulative, with things like refusing to cooperate with investigators after she reported misconduct. Or her classifying a voluntary relationship as coerced.

Additionally, folks on Reddit seem to believe that she coordinated with the previous CEO to take over the job so she'd have a CEO title going in to the lawsuit. Hence the sudden resignation of Yishan for no apparent reason.

There's other things, like refusing to negotiate salaries "because women do worse", which is really just an anti-employee action.

All this was before the banning of subreddits. I also don't find it credible that people dislike her because she's a woman. I don't know if the bits I read are true (they seem well presented, but many false things are), but if so, that's certainly enough reason regardless of gender.

Re: Ellen Pao owes Kleiner Perkins $276,000 for lawsuit costs: judge

#86

Post by PythonicAlpha »

lugg wrote: post #70
PythonicAlpha wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is just the opposite of what I tried to say. I am not a native speaker, so I might have been misunderstood ...?? Some things just go beyond figures ...

albertop, and I, are confused by your post, because you are defending her decision to refuse the 1 million with "righteousness" but must have missed the part of the article where it states she counter offered to settle for 2.7 million. .. or, 2.7m = righteousness

Ok, that was a detail, I simply misunderstood. I thought, that she refused the settlement and wanted to bring it to court.

Still, without knowing the details, it is difficult to judge over a persons motives.

Re: Ellen Pao owes Kleiner Perkins $276,000 for lawsuit costs: judge

#87

Post by [deleted] »

WalterGR wrote: post #59
rnovak wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get that people will probably disagree, but she just seems to not make very good business decisions. Maybe I'm way off base, but I've read a bunch of well qualified lawyers say that juries are just plain unpredictable, and that no competent lawyer can "guarantee" to win. In that light, even if the $1M settlement wasn't what you're asking for, I would think it paints a better picture of you than losing and having to…

Anyone care to explain something that I might be missing? Perhaps her primary concern isn't a cash payout.

[deleted]

Re: Ellen Pao owes Kleiner Perkins $276,000 for lawsuit costs: judge

#89

Post by obstinate »

DanBlake wrote: post #73
cjensen wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because of the ban on groups which actively harass others? Or is there another reason?

I think its because of the censoring of stuff which is critical of her and her husband and less about the banning of fat hate subs - See: https://twitter.com/arrington/status/609065906900066304 It especially does not help the fact that her husband was at the helm of a massive scheme that defrauded untold amounts of public workers in regards to their pension https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddy_Fletcher http://nypost.c…

Yeah, so, SHE did not censor those posts. Nor did admins. Sub moderators did. I mean, it even says that in the news articles you posted.

And who hates a woman because of something her husband did? That is just gross, medieval thinking.

Re: Ellen Pao owes Kleiner Perkins $276,000 for lawsuit costs: judge

#90

Post by codesushi42 »

PopeOfNope wrote: post #77
codesushi42 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Freedom of speech does not apply here. Reddit is not a forum owned by the public, it's a business. Reddit is within their rights to remove any content as they see fit. Yeah, people complain once they realize walled gardens like Reddit start censoring whatever they choose only /after/ they get too big to stop. Same goes for closed ecosystems like the App Store and Google Play. Guess you should have read the fine print…

> I yearn for the days when the Internet was truly open. When was that? Back in the early days, ISPs and hosts would shut down sites with very little provocation. I remember big outcries around sites being taken down by their ISP and/or having their domains seized by the FBI for file sharing and/or hate speech. In fact, you could argue that the internet is more resistant to censorship now than it was back then. The I…

True. I wasn't specifically talking about hate speech though. I was talking more about launching a site/app/business or spreading an idea. More often these happen entirely through a few closed channels (social networks, Reddit, app stores) and/or are completely reliant on a few closed channels to get any traction.

The Internet used to have more of a creative and community driven focus when people ran their own websites and found information through link networks. Now it's a continuous stream of information fed through a few closed platforms. If you don't submit yourself to the follies and whims of these platforms, you will never be seen.

I think that's most of what made Reddit so successful which is reminiscent of the old days-- its subreddits and link network of those communities.

I wish RSS, or something like it, hadn't failed.

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