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Let's Give Visas to Startup Founders

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21–29 of 29 posts

Re: Let's Give Visas to Startup Founders

#21
post #9

Current waiting time for China and India-born employment-based Green Card application is likely to be 4-5 years. Many of those applicants are potential startup founders. Sadly they cannot pursue their ambitions due to the long immigration process. Some of them will choose to leave US and found their startups in their home countries.

Speeding up the Green Card process is actually a better solution & also has the greater probability of happening vs granting a founders visa.

Re: Let's Give Visas to Startup Founders

#22
Why can't the venture capital go there. Every article on Venture these days says American VCs are looking overseas more than here. Surely they'll find the best and brightest with great ideas and can invest at a better exchange rate by keeping entrepreneurs local. We have more than enough innovation in this country. Our problem is once the idea is proven we can't make an industry out of it without being undercut.

Re: Let's Give Visas to Startup Founders

#23
post #12

"The idea and the founder's résumé would then need to pass muster with a government or industry-appointed board of venture capitalists, financiers, or technology experts" This is the fatal flaw in the program. The whole reason startup culture exists is that we don't have a way of knowing in advance what ideas are really worth pursuing, short of giving them a try. But this program would create a board of experts whose…

Another problem with the idea is that the investor approving your founder visa has additional leverage over you. This extra leverage will take the form of lower valuations, lower investments, and (even more) investor friendly terms. For proof, look to H1Bs. H1B employees are paid significantly less than non-H1B employees. Don't like it? STFU or go back to your home country.

I think this may strongly depend on the home country (thus creating more distortion).

Home country is not necessarily Bangladesh, it could be UK or Switzerland, in which case the H1B holder can and does negotiate for market rate salary or he will go to his home country where he is payed fairly and life is just as good.

Re: Let's Give Visas to Startup Founders

#24
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another problem with the idea is that the investor approving your founder visa has additional leverage over you. This extra leverage will take the form of lower valuations, lower investments, and (even more) investor friendly terms. For proof, look to H1Bs. H1B employees are paid significantly less than non-H1B employees. Don't like it? STFU or go back to your home country.

I think this may strongly depend on the home country (thus creating more distortion). Home country is not necessarily Bangladesh, it could be UK or Switzerland, in which case the H1B holder can and does negotiate for market rate salary or he will go to his home country where he is payed fairly and life is just as good.

You're right, assuming the H1B employer is honest. However, the defacto primary use-case of an H1B is to depress the wages that MegaCorp pays its employees.

The current advocates of the Startup Visa probably have honest intentions, but I guarantee that after 10 years, the startup visa will work similarly to the H1B program.

Re: Let's Give Visas to Startup Founders

#25
post #19
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another problem with the idea is that the investor approving your founder visa has additional leverage over you. This extra leverage will take the form of lower valuations, lower investments, and (even more) investor friendly terms. For proof, look to H1Bs. H1B employees are paid significantly less than non-H1B employees. Don't like it? STFU or go back to your home country.

The "visa discount" is a real phenomenon, but the alternative is not coming here at all. You don't have to like it (I don't), but that's how it goes.

> the alternative is not coming here at all

That is one alternative. Another is coming up with a program that doesn't allow MegaCorp to abuse its H1B employees and depress market wages for US citizens at the same time.

Re: Let's Give Visas to Startup Founders

#26
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the problem area that bugs me about the founder visa concept. The concept is great. Embodying it into law requires it go through the sausage factory. I jokingly told a doctor last week I could write health care reform in 5 pages. I'm pretty sure I could. But it wouldn't get through congress in that form.

Well, there is potential for abuse: a startup founder gets an "investment" of $500k from an accredited angel and a permanent resident visa. A little while later, the startup takes an exit (e.g. dissolves the company and returns the assets to the investor), netting the founder a greencard in the process.

If you've got somebody willing to wire you $500k, you can basically do that already.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-2_visa

Re: Let's Give Visas to Startup Founders

#27
post #16

"The idea and the founder's résumé would then need to pass muster with a government or industry-appointed board of venture capitalists, financiers, or technology experts" This is the fatal flaw in the program. The whole reason startup culture exists is that we don't have a way of knowing in advance what ideas are really worth pursuing, short of giving them a try. But this program would create a board of experts whose…

To be fair, this was not at all part of the original proposal; it's one of those idiotic riders tacked on by politicians after they get their hands on something. The only "approval" required was in the form of investors stumping up cash. Any accreditation should be of the investors , not the the founders.

This is pretty close to the E2 Treaty Investor visa, which exists already. I have held one of them. Our investment was bringing over a company founded in the UK. The interesting thing was that the majority of the actual investment came from US investors. Then our accountant valued the company, based on the work we had done since the investment, to be significantly higher than what the investment was. This was submitted in the paperwork, and was accepted.

So my one data point says: a good US immigration lawyer and an accountant who understands how to value software companies does do the trick.

The E2 Treaty Investor:

Nationals of qualifying Treaty countries who have made a significant investment in the United States may qualify for E2 Treaty Investor status. Like the E1 visa, there is no set minimum level of investment which may qualify for E2 status, but the lower the investment the less likely one is to qualify. Again, the level of investment must be sufficient to justify the treaty national (or his/her employees) presence in the United States. The investment must be in an operating business – i.e. simply buying property or stocks and bonds does not qualify. Also, a substantial part of the investment must have been made before applying for E2 status.

Source: http://www.workpermit.com/us/investor_e1_e2.htm

Re: Let's Give Visas to Startup Founders

#28
post #26
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, there is potential for abuse: a startup founder gets an "investment" of $500k from an accredited angel and a permanent resident visa. A little while later, the startup takes an exit (e.g. dissolves the company and returns the assets to the investor), netting the founder a greencard in the process.

If you've got somebody willing to wire you $500k, you can basically do that already. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E-2_visa

Well, that requires that you leave the country immediately after the business has been concluded; this proposal says that "... the founder would be granted a permanent resident visa", which presumably wouldn't expire.

Re: Let's Give Visas to Startup Founders

#29
post #14

A better solution would be to just fix immigration. Adopt something similar to the Commonwealth point system http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highly_Skilled_Migrant_Programm... , where you get points for being young, educated, in a useful profession, etc. Get enough points and you're automatically allowed in. A system like this would reduce the distortion, and allow talented people into the country to bootstrap or e.g. w…

Also removing worldwide taxation of non-resident income of non-resident citizens. (As in, if I make a million a year living in peru, I don't want to have to pay taxes for the income above $80'000 to the IRS that I made in Peru while I lived in Peru). The US is the only (or one of a very small number) of countries that do this. I do not want to become a US citizen expressively for that reason.
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