Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Can China Be Contained?

wsj.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–36 of 36 posts

Re: Can China Be Contained?

#31

Post by lachesisdecima »

Animats wrote: post #12

Can China be contained? No, because China has finally figured out how to make their country work. Russia never worked very well. It didn't work under the tsars, it made some progress under communism but never caught up, it regressed when the USSR broke up and Russia tried capitalism (deaths and poverty rose a lot), the oligarch era didn't help, and it's not doing that great as a semi-dictatorship. Containing the USSR…

I would not say that the USSR did not make a lot of progress. It was technologically advanced (through it's use of design bureaus) but the inherent inefficiencies of it's system made it quite impossible to grow after a certain point (economically speaking).

China is playing it smart. It is waving the proverbial carrot in front of the faces of poorer countries in Africa etc. They would gladly support the Chinese coming over to build their infrastructure after being f*ed over by the international (i.e. Western) financial institutions. They are running over to China because it can help them. China can already count on a large base of support from these countries.

The military is going to be used to further this base of support. Being strong means that more people would be inclined to deal with you, knowing that you can accord them protection. The military will play a huge role in increasing the economic might of China.

This will not happen soon. China still has a long way to go. China needs to assume greater control of world finance for this to work. Their new development bank is just firing up. China is still only a major exporter of cheap goods and electronics.

Re: Can China Be Contained?

#32

Post by rakoo »

EdwardDiego wrote: post #21
jseliger wrote: post #3

The number of actual facts in this article is distressingly small. Paragraphs like this: Even the U.S. business community, once Beijing’s staunchest advocate in Washington, has lost some of its enthusiasm for engagement. James McGregor, a former chairman of the American Chamber of Commerce in China and now the China chairman of APCO Worldwide, a business consultancy, recalls helping to persuade U.S. trade association…

> that killed tens of millions of its own citizens China doesn't have that? It certainly had it.

No, it doesn't have that. The era of Mao and the soviet ideology is long gone, but the number one priority ("maintain social harmony") made rejecting communism too expensive. jseliger is right in saying that today's China is "communist" only by name.

Re: Can China Be Contained?

#33

Post by rakoo »

curiously wrote: post #17
maguirre wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if you realize it or maybe the sarcasm is lost in this medium. However many of the things you just said about China, with the exception of being an authoritarian government, could also be said about the US.

I would rather have US as an authoritarian government than China. I mean do you see how China treats it's own people? It's fucking horrid. the 500 mil Chinese pulled out of poverty line is classic propaganda CCP would love to have you spewing.

> I mean do you see how China treats it's own people?

Do you ? Because you seem to be mixing up China and North Korea. Today's China is not Mao's China. It's not the best thing ever, but to think that it's so different that the US is just wrong.

Re: Can China Be Contained?

#34

Post by curiously »

invaliddata wrote: post #28
curiously wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would rather have US as an authoritarian government than China. I mean do you see how China treats it's own people? It's fucking horrid. the 500 mil Chinese pulled out of poverty line is classic propaganda CCP would love to have you spewing.

It seems pretty clear that china has done a better job in raising the overall circumstances of the poorest of its citizens than many other developing countries over a similar time span. I'm not just talking about a bunch of African basket cases either. Look at India; for all the progress they have made, the poorest of their people live in horrible circumstances, the likes of which one doesn't find in the same enormou…

India is different because they don't embrace the same communist party ideology and leadership structure. Unfortunately, the government has no power because all the money in India is flowing to private anonymous banking friendly countries and they can't tax it.

Re: Can China Be Contained?

#35

Post by sammydavis »

sangnoir wrote: post #19
curiously wrote: post #15

"watching the administration of President Xi Jinping crack down hard on internal dissent while challenging the U.S. for leadership in Asia" but that's exactly Xi Jinping's motive. People watching and making their own conclusions as long as its coming from the citizens. To Chinese public, Xi looks like a straightshooter, standing up for justice and vying for the attention of united states. In reality, the outcome is i…

Empires rise and fall. The British empire at its zenith was impressive as well and was almost unchallenged. Military supremacy follows economic development. I'm curious how the next 100 years will turn out (I'll experience 60+ of those, if I'm lucky), considering the following: - the shift in American demographics (how long will the slightly right-of-center politics hold? To which side of the spectrum will it shift?)…

I thought it was certain there will be less right of center people in the us, as the older white conservative/republican generation dies off, and is replaced by more people of color and/or somewhat less conservative kids.

To me the open question is will this lead to a more liberal or Canadian like politics, or could the shrinking conservative base blow us up into multiple countries? US northeast and west coast joins canada? Rest, becomes jesus land?

Re: Can China Be Contained?

#36

Post by sangnoir »

tim333 wrote: post #30
sangnoir wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Empires rise and fall. The British empire at its zenith was impressive as well and was almost unchallenged. Military supremacy follows economic development. I'm curious how the next 100 years will turn out (I'll experience 60+ of those, if I'm lucky), considering the following: - the shift in American demographics (how long will the slightly right-of-center politics hold? To which side of the spectrum will it shift?)…

If you believe the 'singularity' stuff, the changes will dwarf those you mention.

I do believe in the 'singularity' stuff - but I doubt it will happen within the next 100 years. I don't think as humans we are ready for it yet socially or politically (post-scarcity).

We're pretty terrible at distributing resources currently - not because of logistics mind you, but pure self-interest. that's not going to change overnight. If we were to upload our consciousness today, we're going to end up looking more like a balkanized "The Terminator" rather than "The Culture"

Post reply on HN