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Will your self-driving car be programmed to kill you?

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Re: Will your self-driving car be programmed to kill you?

#31

Post by stkni »

Don't think we're going to ask computers to count the cost of a life, anytime soon. Especially since humans have a hard enough job doing it [1].

It will be designed, I imagine, to do the safest thing possible given an emergency. Which is in this instance, as most people suggest, stop as quickly as possible.

Nothing to see, move on.

[1] http://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/17/business/economy/17regulat...

Re: Will your self-driving car be programmed to kill you?

#33

Post by _lce0 »

I can imagine this scenario: in a bridge without any place to go but ahead ..

   -------------------------------------------------
      5 people
a) The car can break, but the heavy truck below will certainly kill the car's only passenger, who's on the back seat

b) The car hit and potentially kill most of the people standing, but save its passenger

c) The car can jump to the void

Scary as it sounds, what the car would do depends on the software

Re: Will your self-driving car be programmed to kill you?

#35

Post by nhdev »

_lce0 wrote: post #33

I can imagine this scenario: in a bridge without any place to go but ahead .. ------------------------------------------------- 5 people a) The car can break, but the heavy truck below will certainly kill the car's only passenger, who's on the back seat b) The car hit and potentially kill most of the people standing, but save its passenger c) The car can jump to the void Scary as it sounds, what the car would do depe…

(d) The car would stop because unlike human drivers, a self-driving car would be programmed to avoid going so fast that it can't stop if a sudden obstacle would appear (aside from maybe something falling from the sky).

Re: Will your self-driving car be programmed to kill you?

#36

Post by chernevik »

[deleted] wrote: post #32

[deleted]

Four years ago I was driving down a hill in insanely slick weather. Though I was driving very slowly, the car skidded, and was heading into an extremely busy street. I had enough steering to put the car into a tree, slowly, rather risk something really serious.

Not quite a Trolley Problem -- _I_ was among those better off by cutting the losses. But yes, weird situations and choices do emerge.

Re: Will your self-driving car be programmed to kill you?

#37

Post by sp332 »

andreasklinger wrote: post #20
ajuc wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are situations where you can't not kill, you just can choose who to kill. Opposite of "planning to kill" is "killing randomly".

you meant "killing accidentally" hopefully? :)

No, cars are sometimes in a situation where someone is going to die. If you don't think about these situations and plan who to kill ahead of time, then you don't know who is going to die and the outcome is unpredictable.

Re: Will your self-driving car be programmed to kill you?

#38

Post by baldeagle »

_lce0 wrote: post #33

I can imagine this scenario: in a bridge without any place to go but ahead .. ------------------------------------------------- 5 people a) The car can break, but the heavy truck below will certainly kill the car's only passenger, who's on the back seat b) The car hit and potentially kill most of the people standing, but save its passenger c) The car can jump to the void Scary as it sounds, what the car would do depe…

With computer controlled braking, the car could spin around to take the hit on a front corner. This would provide the least danger to the occupant while not hitting the people. Though it does assume the truck is not stopping. In all likelihood it would just stop assuming the truck would stop... The same call any human driver would make if they weren't texting or otherwise distracted. It doesn't have to be perfect, just better than today on odds.

Re: Will your self-driving car be programmed to kill you?

#39

Post by pikzen »

_lce0 wrote: post #33

I can imagine this scenario: in a bridge without any place to go but ahead .. ------------------------------------------------- 5 people a) The car can break, but the heavy truck below will certainly kill the car's only passenger, who's on the back seat b) The car hit and potentially kill most of the people standing, but save its passenger c) The car can jump to the void Scary as it sounds, what the car would do depe…

Considering how efficiently trucks stop, I wouldn't be worried. Plus, that truck is probably going to be driven by a computer too.

A) all day long.

Re: Will your self-driving car be programmed to kill you?

#40

Post by brudgers »

gambiting wrote: post #25
imgabe wrote: post #14

It's an interesting thought experiment, but I think a real situation with such a stark binary choice is so improbable that it's barely worth considering. Cars are not on trolley tracks and computers can brake or swerve harder and faster than any human could.

No matter how fast they break or swerve, it's not improbable that they might be in a situation where the computer has a choice - hit someone standing on the side of the road, or don't hit them,but potentially kill everyone on board of the vehicle. What should it do? Would anyone of us want to be the programmer who writes that code? Because I know that I definitely wouldn't want to be in charge of that.

A discipline for hard choices in the realm of human mortality are what separates professions from mere occupations. It's what gave birth to the term 'software engineer' on the Apollo team. It's the price of lunch for the self driving car team. Ignoring the implicit decision doesn't relieve anyone of responsibility. Engineering means accepting the fallibility of one's decisions and the potential consequences of failure include people dying.
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