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South Korea provokes teenage smartphone privacy row

bbc.com

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Re: South Korea provokes teenage smartphone privacy row

#21

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

Quppa wrote: post #13
tempodox wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe not right away, but the effect is already showing: ...learning to control what kinds of media are encountered on the net is now a part of growing up... Don't underestimate the power of youth. The old ways won't continue unchallenged.

I hope you're right. On the other hand, the 'power of youth' works both ways - it seems like a non-negligible percentage of youth in the West favour more censorship, not less - witness the rise of 'trigger warnings' and 'safe spaces' on university campuses, for example. Their aims might be quite different to those of a semi-authoritarian government, but the censorious impulse is the same.

Trigger warnings aren't censorship, they're a renamed content warning. People might voluntarily avoid consuming works labelled with warnings in some cases, but that's it.

Safe spaces are not fundamentally different to ordinary social spaces with rules. Was the introduction of anti-bullying efforts in schools some alarming new dawn for censorship?

Re: South Korea provokes teenage smartphone privacy row

#22

Post by cactusface »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #21
Quppa wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you're right. On the other hand, the 'power of youth' works both ways - it seems like a non-negligible percentage of youth in the West favour more censorship, not less - witness the rise of 'trigger warnings' and 'safe spaces' on university campuses, for example. Their aims might be quite different to those of a semi-authoritarian government, but the censorious impulse is the same.

Trigger warnings aren't censorship, they're a renamed content warning. People might voluntarily avoid consuming works labelled with warnings in some cases, but that's it. Safe spaces are not fundamentally different to ordinary social spaces with rules. Was the introduction of anti-bullying efforts in schools some alarming new dawn for censorship?

I think you're underestimating the effects of content warnings. As an example, studios routinely alter films so as to achieve more favorable ratings from the MPAA.

Re: South Korea provokes teenage smartphone privacy row

#23

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

cactusface wrote: post #22
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trigger warnings aren't censorship, they're a renamed content warning. People might voluntarily avoid consuming works labelled with warnings in some cases, but that's it. Safe spaces are not fundamentally different to ordinary social spaces with rules. Was the introduction of anti-bullying efforts in schools some alarming new dawn for censorship?

I think you're underestimating the effects of content warnings. As an example, studios routinely alter films so as to achieve more favorable ratings from the MPAA.

Rating systems have teeth, yes. But the "some viewers may find the following images disturbing"-type warnings, to which trigger warnings are equivalent, don't have teeth. They're voluntary guidance. Think also of epilepsy warnings.

Re: South Korea provokes teenage smartphone privacy row

#24

Post by pjc50 »

eveningcoffee wrote: post #4

This shows how thin is the layer of democracy in the society. "South Korea is a vibrant democracy. It's had free and fair elections since 1987." (so it is 28 years, this is only about 5 years more than nations in Eastern Europe who escaped Soviet Russian dictatorships). "Major-General Park Chung-hee took power in a coup in 1961. He was a strongman who utilised brutal methods - but he also dictated that industries be…

(this also raises the question why dictators in the north were not able to do the same)

Presumably the continuation of the proxy war; the US would have been a lot more open to South Korea.

Re: South Korea provokes teenage smartphone privacy row

#25

Post by cactusface »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #23
cactusface wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're underestimating the effects of content warnings. As an example, studios routinely alter films so as to achieve more favorable ratings from the MPAA.

Rating systems have teeth, yes. But the "some viewers may find the following images disturbing"-type warnings, to which trigger warnings are equivalent, don't have teeth. They're voluntary guidance. Think also of epilepsy warnings.

I think plenty of people would alter their content to avoid warnings, regardless of context. But, I only have data for the MPAA and also maybe recordings with explicit lyrics. I don't necessarily think warnings are bad, I just think that in general, if you're going to label people's work in a negative way, some people would rather change their work so that it doesn't get labelled like that. I mean, I try to be polite on HN so that it doesn't get downvoted and greyed out, but this isn't really that bad of a thing.

Re: South Korea provokes teenage smartphone privacy row

#26

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

cactusface wrote: post #25
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rating systems have teeth, yes. But the "some viewers may find the following images disturbing"-type warnings, to which trigger warnings are equivalent, don't have teeth. They're voluntary guidance. Think also of epilepsy warnings.

I think plenty of people would alter their content to avoid warnings, regardless of context. But, I only have data for the MPAA and also maybe recordings with explicit lyrics. I don't necessarily think warnings are bad, I just think that in general, if you're going to label people's work in a negative way, some people would rather change their work so that it doesn't get labelled like that. I mean, I try to be polite…

I can see where you're coming from. Removing content because you'd have to warn viewers about it makes sense, I suppose.

Though trigger warnings don't mean the work is "bad", just it might cause problems for a small fraction of viewers.

Re: South Korea provokes teenage smartphone privacy row

#27

Post by dragonwriter »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #21
Quppa wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope you're right. On the other hand, the 'power of youth' works both ways - it seems like a non-negligible percentage of youth in the West favour more censorship, not less - witness the rise of 'trigger warnings' and 'safe spaces' on university campuses, for example. Their aims might be quite different to those of a semi-authoritarian government, but the censorious impulse is the same.

Trigger warnings aren't censorship, they're a renamed content warning. People might voluntarily avoid consuming works labelled with warnings in some cases, but that's it. Safe spaces are not fundamentally different to ordinary social spaces with rules. Was the introduction of anti-bullying efforts in schools some alarming new dawn for censorship?

Trigger warnings are fundamentally misguided; actual triggers for people with a past history of trauma are often not yhe type of things that get trigged warnings; the things that get trigger warnings are just things that are likely to be sensitive independent of such history, because "trigger" has been the subject of appropriation by people who want society to cater to their political sensitivity week found that mere "offense" want powerful enough.

Some people might be triggered by them, but real triggered are as likely to be, say, a scent that has become associated with the traumatic event because it was present at the time. "Trigger warnings" are based on a kind of intellectual association which had little relation to his actual triggering works but a lot to do with his run out the mill offense works.

Real triggering can only meaningfully be addressed with sensitivity to actual individual triggers, and any meaningful eastbound and agree disagree would be highly lesson-specific. The modern phenomenon of "trigger warnings" and "safe spaces" if just privileging a certain set of political sensitivities and aesthetic preferences, not addressing actual safety from trauma triggers.

Re: South Korea provokes teenage smartphone privacy row

#28

Post by cactusface »

TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #26
cactusface wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think plenty of people would alter their content to avoid warnings, regardless of context. But, I only have data for the MPAA and also maybe recordings with explicit lyrics. I don't necessarily think warnings are bad, I just think that in general, if you're going to label people's work in a negative way, some people would rather change their work so that it doesn't get labelled like that. I mean, I try to be polite…

I can see where you're coming from. Removing content because you'd have to warn viewers about it makes sense, I suppose. Though trigger warnings don't mean the work is "bad", just it might cause problems for a small fraction of viewers.

Yeah, I think we basically agree. I was just nitpicking.

Re: South Korea provokes teenage smartphone privacy row

#29

Post by abandonliberty »

I was mortified when I heard of 'surprise phone checks': parents have their child walk them through every single piece of content and app on the phone.

I know someone who found that their 12 year old daughter had found a much older out-of-state admirer who was going to drive out to pick her up. She had been sending explicit pictures of herself. She no longer has a smartphone.

As a child, I would not have responded well to this invasion of my privacy. Perhaps if the electronics are given to them with no expectation, it would not be as bad. It would also help prepare them for our future totalitarian regime.

PS: Any parents reading this, the app in question was Kik, noted for its prevalence of pedophiles, but there are certainly alternatives. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kik_Messenger#Controversy

Re: South Korea provokes teenage smartphone privacy row

#30

Post by TazeTSchnitzel »

dragonwriter wrote: post #27
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Trigger warnings aren't censorship, they're a renamed content warning. People might voluntarily avoid consuming works labelled with warnings in some cases, but that's it. Safe spaces are not fundamentally different to ordinary social spaces with rules. Was the introduction of anti-bullying efforts in schools some alarming new dawn for censorship?

Trigger warnings are fundamentally misguided; actual triggers for people with a past history of trauma are often not yhe type of things that get trigged warnings; the things that get trigger warnings are just things that are likely to be sensitive independent of such history, because "trigger" has been the subject of appropriation by people who want society to cater to their political sensitivity week found that mere…

> Trigger warnings are fundamentally misguided; actual triggers for people with a past history of trauma are often not yhe type of things that get trigged warnings

It really depends on the person. Some people who've had the misfortune of experiencing rape definitely do get flashbacks when rape is described to them, for example. This isn't a hypothetical thing: someone I know had this happen.

> The modern phenomenon of "trigger warnings" and "safe spaces" if just privileging a certain set of political sensitivities and aesthetic preferences, not addressing actual safety from trauma triggers.

Whether or not trigger warnings help with trauma, they are mostly harmless. I'd be inclined to err on the side of caution here, given that most of the people with the biggest problem with trigger warnings tend to be people who wouldn't need them anyway.

Safe spaces don't just exist to avoid trauma, and the reason they exist isn't political. They exist to allow people excluded by mainstream spaces to participate. For example, rape survivors may find it difficult to participate in spaces where people make "jokes" about rape, for fairly obvious reasons.

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