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To Lose Weight, Eating Less Is Far More Important Than Exercising More

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151–160 of 238 posts

Re: To Lose Weight, Eating Less Is Far More Important Than Exercising More

#151
post #12

Still amazed that people are still considering this a pure caloric issue and not a food quality issue. When you look at how various hormones (namely insulin) are affected by blood sugar & affect body composition, it seems you'd want to promote a method that bears that in mind. That said, I think the focus should be on "eating better" not just "eating less."

Eating 3000kcal of "quality food" every day will still make you gross fat and give you heart problems. And did you know that protein also affects insulin? Insulin is essential for muscle building. Still find it hilarious how so many people still don't understand that a caloric deficit or surplus is the #1 thing to do when trying to cut or bulk.

The "food quality" argument (as it is put above) or really any argument claiming that caloric accounting is only a part of the picture basically say:

It's a lot more complicated than that. Even if is caloric accounting is true in the sense that you could control weight gain/loss via caloric surpluses/deficits (pretty hard to deny) this does not account for why caloric surpluses are so common.

A daily surplus of just 100 calories per day (~4% of daily total) will earn you an extra kg every couple of months (7000 calories per kg), 5-6 per year. Being off by in your "calculations" by this much will take you from underweight to obese in a few years. How then, do the many people who don't fluctuate their weight wildly manage to balance out their caloric input/output without precisely measuring their food. In fact, even highly disciplined people who weigh and record every bite could be off by 100 calories just because of inaccuracies in labeling. If your lemons are more caloric than the average lemon, you're screwed.

In the context of intentional and highly disciplined rapid changes in body size (like dieters or body builders) the caloric accounting method works. Add/remove 500 calories per day to add/remove about a pound per week, all else equal.

It's obviously "true," but just as obviously is not a complete picture. The relevance is contextual and practical. IE, body builders and crash dieters should and do reference it. A parent trying to make sure their kids are healthy does not.

We don't really understand metabolism enough to have real science based answers to our questions. That's why I think all these accusations of "bro science" are silly. There is no alternative. Referencing caloric accounting is attractive because it can be lab tested and it works in a lab, but labs control for other factors (like apetite). That doesn't mean it's a complete picture. It's relevant only to the extent that you can mimic lab conditions in your life.

Just like caloric deficit is true when isolated, so are other ideas that get thrown around. Hyper-palatable processed foods. Sugar addiction. Carbs. Insulin responses and appetite. Glycemic indexes. Gut flora. The carb/insulin people are interested in how food affects appetite.

I'll give you an example just to demonstrate how little we know. Say you take a morbidly obese individual and have them lose 100kg of weight, they have a capacity to regain that weight in a very short period much faster than anyone who has never been obese. A regular person usually cannot gain 25kg in a year. Biggest losers do it regularly

The same is true of body builders (power lifters, rugby players, etc). If they lose their 25 kg of "excess" muscle, they will often be able to regain much faster than anyone starting from scratch. IE take two 75kg guys with 15% body fat. One was 90kg with 10% body fat 5 years ago. Have them both exercise and diet hard, racing to put on 10kg of muscle. Use trainers to "control" for experience as much as possible. The ex body builder will leave the other guy in the dust.

I've heard this called "cellular memory," "muscle memory" (which is already takes, so rude) and such. But naming it does not mean we understand it. We don't have any kind of understanding of how or why this works. We just don't know.

This is why diet debates, especially among HN-like intellectual crowds can be annoying. Everyone has their tidbit of "scientifically proven" knowledge, but the truth is that we're in the dark ages. It's like geology before plate tectonics or biology before darwinian evolution.

Re: To Lose Weight, Eating Less Is Far More Important Than Exercising More

#152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different foods cause different levels of satiation. Knowing that eating less will make you lose weight is not the same thing as overcoming feelings of hunger to actually eat less in practice.

Absolutely agree with you, but that is an entirely different discussion. A good use case for the quality vs. quantity issue would be bodybuilders. Throughout a bulking cycle they make (or ... they should make) a concerted effort to do a "clean bulk" - which is healthy, good food. Ask any bodybuilder how difficult that is - which is exactly what you're saying. It's difficult because the food makes them full, satiated,…

    > that is an entirely different discussion
Surely it's a deeply related one.

    > Throughout a bulking cycle they make (or ... they should 
    > make) a concerted effort to do a "clean bulk" - which is
    > healthy, good food
For better or worse, most of the ones I know eat any old shit. Turns out supplemental testosterone is one helluva drug.

Re: To Lose Weight, Eating Less Is Far More Important Than Exercising More

#153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that No True Scotsman in any way? Seriously?! >> It is a microsecond of thought experiment to find 500 McDonald's calories that are better for you than a specific 500 fresh vegetable calories. Go for it. Take a whole second if you must.

> Go for it. Take a whole second if you must. McD's sells fresh fruit bags, grilled chicken, all manner of salads that you don't need to add dressing to, and so on. But you want a specific example? I give you the Ranch Snack Wrap® (Grilled), Artisan Grilled Chicken Filet, mostly because if you eat two of them, you're near the 500kcal (580) mark, macronutrient ratio breakdown by calorie being 25% protein, 33% carbs, 4…

Fine, I concede. The term MacDonalds may be too ingrained in my mind as a synonym to junk food.

I should have said "500 calories of sugar-rich junk food will not affect your weight and health in the same way as 500 calories of protein. Doing calorie maths is pointless for any relevant overview of your diet."

It seems a bit pedantic to be bothered by me bashing MacDonalds.

Re: To Lose Weight, Eating Less Is Far More Important Than Exercising More

#154
post #119
post #93

Everybody in the fitness circles (see Reddit Fitness) knows this. It's just that normally doctors, TV & company misadvice you, telling something like "walk more, be more active" when the task at hand is to lose weight. Actually the exercise suggestion should be: do some strength training while seriously dieting in order to retain muscles. A 30 minutes run will burn ~400 calories. The same amount of calories can be ea…

You do your math. Exercise isn't just about how many calories you burn during it. Add a kilo of muscle and it will be burning energy 24 hours a day, 365 days a year.

You urged to do your math, but didn't present any of yours.

Muscle burns an inconsequential amount of energy -- 6-10 per pound depending on sources. So if you were somehow to gain 10 pounds of pure muscle, you'd have enough calories for a small apple per day (60 cal).

How fast can you gain 10 pounds of muscle? In an 18-week weight training programme, a group of men gained 4.6 pounds of muscle: http://jap.physiology.org/content/82/1/298 -- most of the gain in 8 weeks. So I would imagine increasing your lean mass by 10 pounds (just to be able to eat an extra apple a day) would be quite an effort.

One study: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3139779/

So considering SOLELY weight loss, ignoring calory deficits from diet changes and focusing on building up muscle mass does not seem effective. Instead of building up muscle mass for a 60Cal deficit via BMR increase, take a 600 Cal deficit via diet and lose the weight in 1/10th the time.

Re: To Lose Weight, Eating Less Is Far More Important Than Exercising More

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who cares about overweight? It's about being healthy, but people forgot that. A lot of people from the gym are classified as overweight, with fat or not, but they are healthy as a horse and look good as well. This concern about losing weight has gone way too far.

Well, whether you call it overweight or not, some people just want to lose fat, for whatever reason.

Fair enough, everyone has different goals. Some people really just want to lose fat for the sake of it.

Re: To Lose Weight, Eating Less Is Far More Important Than Exercising More

#156
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but there is an world of difference being How so (in terms of body composition)? Say TDEE = 3000 and one disregards macro/micros and eats at 2500 for 20 weeks opposed to one who ensures appropriate amounts.

Well, not eating protein will mean you lose more muscle mass.

>'world of difference'

Say 100g compared to 200g for a 75kg 10% male, assuming identical AA profile. How is there a 'world of difference'?

Re: To Lose Weight, Eating Less Is Far More Important Than Exercising More

#157
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> eating "better" almost always puts "better" out of reach of low-income families. I learned to cook cheap, unprocessed, healthy food as a student, in order to save money. A big bag of potatoes doesn't cost much and can make the bulk portion of many meals. I currently cook a lot of beans in my pressure cooker - easy, cheap and healthy. Admittedly, the preparation time increases, which may be a problem for lower incom…

The people who advocate healthy food will tell you that potatoes and beans were among your worst choices. Ask them. I have a 700 calorie thing of rice and chicken that I love, and I have been repeatedly told it's awful for my diet and I need to eat healthier, completely ignoring the fact that an entire race on the planet has done pretty okay with rice and meats for centuries. The one thing I know for sure is that alm…

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Re: To Lose Weight, Eating Less Is Far More Important Than Exercising More

#158

There really isn't that much science to it. On paper its really really simple. To loose weight, you must expend more energy than you absorb. However, conversely to get fit, you will need to eat a balanced diet, with enough calories to replace damaged muscles. However on the weight loss front here are the golden rules: Some people exercise (exercise expends energy) Some people reduce energy consumption (eat less, or e…

Assuming that by "4:2" you are talking about intermittent fasting, does anyone believe otherwise? Alternate-day fasting can help people lose weight not because there's any magical effect, but because a faster is unlikely to double their calorie intake the day after fasting - having fast days is just a simple/easy way to reduce overall calorie intake.

Besides, the main benefits of alternate-day fasting are meant to be health related, not explicitly weight-loss. Is it a main-stream weight-loss method?

Re: To Lose Weight, Eating Less Is Far More Important Than Exercising More

#159
post #88
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"All other factors being equal, a person burning 2500 kcal per day and consuming 2000 would be worse off than if they burn 3000 kcal and consume 2500." I have tried every possible generous interpretation of this that I can think of, but I just have to ask I guess: what's the idea behind this?

Regarding the 2500 vs 3000 kcal thing: move around, lift weights, knock uglies with your partner multiple times per day, do whatever floats your boat in order to increase your BMR by 500 kcal per day. Regarding the "worse off" part: I assume having less strength and endurance is worse for the average Joe compared to having more strength and endurance. Sorry that it wasn't clear in my post, I guess I assumed it was se…

But then all other factors aren't equal. I.e., person P with x% muscle and y% fat; eats 2500 and burns 2000; or that same person eating 3000 and burning 2500.

Re: To Lose Weight, Eating Less Is Far More Important Than Exercising More

#160
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are confusing "calorie counting", which is a method of losing weight, with a "caloric deficit" being the number one factor for losing weight, which is a fact. It doesn't matter if you count calories or not. What matters is that you achieve a caloric deficit. Any method that is applied successfully to achieve weight loss has resulted in a caloric deficit, whether or not that method was calorie counting.

Calorie deficit is harmful for you though, there's an imbalance. You tell your body it's starving. As soon as you have an extra calorie to spare, you're body will immediately store it as fat, making your hard work essentially meaningless in the long run.

Let me guess you are female and practice haes? Only there I have heard such delusions.
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