Depression's Upside (2010) • Hacker News Board

Re: Depression's Upside (2010)

#41

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jun 16, 2015, 2:00 AM UTC

cactusface wrote: post #33

tjradcliffe wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I think depression has a similar role. Why? I can't see any basis for your belief other than "it just makes sense to me", which is the epistemology of bloodletting and witchburning. Evolutionary just-so stories have been so thoroughly and repeatedly debunked that no one thinks they can be evidence for anything. They may be useful motivators for testable ideas, but that's all. So where is your evidence, your clinica…

Okay, we know that CBT works for depression, yeah? CBT postulates that your thoughts cause your emotions. Part of the therapy is identifying and refuting negative thoughts like, "You're worthless!" Well, if other people are telling you that you're worthless, in one way or another, then it has the same effect. It doesn't matter how much CBT you do, if everyone is around you is telling you that you're worthless, you're…

[deleted]

Re: Depression's Upside (2010)

#42

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jun 16, 2015, 2:35 AM UTC

jE22teTh wrote: post #2

In the US, a surprisingly easy way to inadvertently cause mild depression is to decrease intake of iodized salt over time. The "natural" iodine content of many foods (bread, milk) seems to be dropping steadily due to organic and other preparation practices. Kelp-extract supplements with around 200mcg of iodine daily can go a long way towards preventing mild depression associated with borderline iodine deficiency.

[deleted]

Re: Depression's Upside (2010)

#43

Post by arbre » Tue, Jun 16, 2015, 2:39 AM UTC

I suffered from depression for several years. What worked eventually is meditation. I meditate 1 hour every day in a meditation center and I participate regularly in retreats and I feel happier every day.

Re: Depression's Upside (2010)

#44

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jun 16, 2015, 2:53 AM UTC

eivarv wrote: post #35

cactusface wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Okay, we know that CBT works for depression, yeah? CBT postulates that your thoughts cause your emotions. Part of the therapy is identifying and refuting negative thoughts like, "You're worthless!" Well, if other people are telling you that you're worthless, in one way or another, then it has the same effect. It doesn't matter how much CBT you do, if everyone is around you is telling you that you're worthless, you're…

Your own thoughts and other people's communication do not have the same effect in the context you're describing. You could agree or disagree with what other people say (or whether it matters), for one, while the unreasonable thoughts and irrational thought patterns associated with depression is part of your own perspective in this case. These negative thoughts are identified by and refuted because of the fact that th…

[deleted]

Re: Depression's Upside (2010)

#45

Post by empressplay » Tue, Jun 16, 2015, 3:07 AM UTC

arbre wrote: post #43

I suffered from depression for several years. What worked eventually is meditation. I meditate 1 hour every day in a meditation center and I participate regularly in retreats and I feel happier every day.

You tend to have to "come to" mindfulness though -- in my personal experience you can't just wander over to someone with depression and go "oh, meditate and you'll feel better". They wouldn't know why they were meditating or what it was trying to achieve. You need to come to understand the mechanisms in your mind that cause the symptoms before you can take action to mitigate them and that wisdom unfortunately usually only comes with time.

Re: Depression's Upside (2010)

#46

Post by empressplay » Tue, Jun 16, 2015, 3:11 AM UTC

tim333 wrote: post #39

vermooten wrote: post #6

I've just started CBT to hopefully fix my broken spirit, the article nailed my symptoms. I'm not sure my staying indoors in a darkened room and sighing a lot is helping me to focus on anything though.

Good luck. I did some and found it helpful. I kind guess personally that it works by a kind of neural network rewiring. Before CBT some neurones are taking input, processing it as indicating things being crappy and directly signalling that to the older reptilian bits of the brain that deal with that, without conscious awareness. By consciously becoming aware of the things are crappy reasoning you can argue against it…

That's essentially mindfulness too -- you catch a negative thought and then you construct a counter-argument against it to placate the reptile-brain. It's like living with a little child who's prone to temper-tantrums. Whatever it can take poorly it will, and it's your responsibility to re-frame things in a good light quickly.

Re: Depression's Upside (2010)

#47

Post by empressplay » Tue, Jun 16, 2015, 3:17 AM UTC

vermooten wrote: post #6

I've just started CBT to hopefully fix my broken spirit, the article nailed my symptoms. I'm not sure my staying indoors in a darkened room and sighing a lot is helping me to focus on anything though.

Unfortunately depressive rumination can become self-referential -- that is, while you might be more analytical and capable of coming to extraordinary conclusions about things, that analysis can easily turn against you and become self-criticism about your competence to produce anything meaningful. It's a double-edged sword.

Re: Depression's Upside (2010)

#48

Post by empressplay » Tue, Jun 16, 2015, 3:23 AM UTC

jE22teTh wrote: post #2

In the US, a surprisingly easy way to inadvertently cause mild depression is to decrease intake of iodized salt over time. The "natural" iodine content of many foods (bread, milk) seems to be dropping steadily due to organic and other preparation practices. Kelp-extract supplements with around 200mcg of iodine daily can go a long way towards preventing mild depression associated with borderline iodine deficiency.

The problem with the idea of using supplements to solve depression is it's a bit like fine-tuning the octane of gasoline in a car to solve a bad air-fuel mixture. You could potentially make the engine run a little better, but it doesn't solve the underlying problem, which is usually emotional trauma.

Developing coping mechanisms is a much better approach, also coming to acceptance (reducing resistance) about things that make you uncomfortable (ie impermanence, fear of rejection, trust issues, loneliness, perceived lack of legacy, etc.)

Re: Depression's Upside (2010)

#49

Post by ep103 » Tue, Jun 16, 2015, 3:34 AM UTC

arbre wrote: post #43

I suffered from depression for several years. What worked eventually is meditation. I meditate 1 hour every day in a meditation center and I participate regularly in retreats and I feel happier every day.

I would love if you would be willing to spare more details. I'm looking to start learning how to meditate. What worked for you? Where did you start?

Re: Depression's Upside (2010)

#50

Post by empressplay » Tue, Jun 16, 2015, 3:39 AM UTC

Devthrowaway80 wrote: post #14

[deleted] wrote: post #12

[deleted]

> My own theory of depression is that it is your brain's way of getting you to change something in your life that is counterproductive to your future wellbeing. Sometimes it isn't entirely obvious what exactly is causing the depression, but if you evaluate all aspects of your life and ask yourself "is this what I really want?", you will eventually figure it out. Utter crap. If I thought long and hard enough, my depre…

I too have had clinical depression since I was a teenager and I thought exactly how you did for two decades, however, I've since come to realise that depression is an extremely complex mechanism that doesn't need a single traumatic event, or an overtly obvious pattern of negative experiences in order to manifest.

What it primarily requires is reinforcement of negative thought patterns, and this reinforcement can exist in many forms, from many places at many severities. Further, because of defence mechanisms (or just natural timidity) we can consciously disregard negative events (while the reptile-brain is still impacted) and by the time depression takes hold we're well past any ability to rationalise away (or even recognise) all the baggage we've collected.

Now, is there an inherent biochemical condition that could make us more susceptible to depression? I imagine there is. But that doesn't discount that there are likely mental mechanisms in play as well, nor that working with those mechanisms could provide some improvement.