Journey: A refugee's odyssey from Syria to Sweden
theguardian.com
Journey: A refugee's odyssey from Syria to Sweden
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Re: Journey: A refugee's odyssey from Syria to Sweden
#2It's unfortunate to me that it is impossible to have a discussion about how this kind of immigration dilutes European culture and identity. The prime minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, said[0]
If we don't stop their entry, the problem that currently stands at 60,000 could grow to 600,000, and that threatens our existence as a Jewish and democratic state ... This phenomenon is very grave and threatens the social fabric of society, our national security and our national identity.
While he has come under some criticism for these statements, can you imagine what would happen if a European prime minister made this kind of statement?
[0] http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/may/20/israel-netanyah...
Re: Journey: A refugee's odyssey from Syria to Sweden
#3It's unfortunate to me that it is impossible to have a discussion about how this kind of immigration dilutes European culture and identity. The prime minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, said[0] If we don't stop their entry, the problem that currently stands at 60,000 could grow to 600,000, and that threatens our existence as a Jewish and democratic state ... This phenomenon is very grave and threatens the social…
"dilutes European culture and identity"
The prime minister of Israel should be reminded that Israel was created as a sanctuary for his people fleeing those exact völkisch sentiments he now preaches. I know from personal experience that there are many Israelis who share this view and are appalled by his words [0].
Re: Journey: A refugee's odyssey from Syria to Sweden
#4It's unfortunate to me that it is impossible to have a discussion about how this kind of immigration dilutes European culture and identity. The prime minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, said[0] If we don't stop their entry, the problem that currently stands at 60,000 could grow to 600,000, and that threatens our existence as a Jewish and democratic state ... This phenomenon is very grave and threatens the social…
First of all, Israel is a special case. It has been founded artificially on a land that was predominantly inhabited by muslims, surrounded by countries predominantly inhabited by muslims.
I won't dive into any discussion if that was a good idea, or if they were right to do that, I am just stating that a lot of non-muslims streamed into a place where there were lots of muslims. The idea that this jewish state, would manage to keep out the majority population in the region without some major "ethnic cleansing" is ridiculous.
In Europe it's the other way around. The large majority here is not muslim, and there is a small (yes, it's tiny compared to the whole population) influx of muslims.
There is no reason to fear a islamification of Europe. The numbers just don't allow it.
Re: Journey: A refugee's odyssey from Syria to Sweden
#5It's unfortunate to me that it is impossible to have a discussion about how this kind of immigration dilutes European culture and identity. The prime minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, said[0] If we don't stop their entry, the problem that currently stands at 60,000 could grow to 600,000, and that threatens our existence as a Jewish and democratic state ... This phenomenon is very grave and threatens the social…
"dilutes European culture and identity" But how could these be diluted? Do you perhaps mean "change", "expand", "put into question"? And is it more important to save those fleeing for their lives or your sense of "undiluted" identity? (Moreover, an identity historically forged through their exploitation.) The prime minister of Israel should be reminded that Israel was created as a sanctuary for his people fleeing tho…
Turns out, Islam tends to have virtually no influence on European culture. All this talk about "dilution" is ridiculous. If at all, Muslim immigrants feel diluted.
And I am not denying that European societies have disproportionately many problems with Muslim immigrants. But we can't do anything about it without violating what we believe is a just society: No human should be punished for crimes another human committed. That holds even when both are muslim.
Re: Journey: A refugee's odyssey from Syria to Sweden
#6[deleted]
Re: Journey: A refugee's odyssey from Syria to Sweden
#7Earlier quoted context omitted.
"dilutes European culture and identity" But how could these be diluted? Do you perhaps mean "change", "expand", "put into question"? And is it more important to save those fleeing for their lives or your sense of "undiluted" identity? (Moreover, an identity historically forged through their exploitation.) The prime minister of Israel should be reminded that Israel was created as a sanctuary for his people fleeing tho…
Turns out, Islam tends to have virtually no influence on European culture. All this talk about "dilution" is ridiculous. If at all, Muslim immigrants feel diluted. And I am not denying that European societies have disproportionately many problems with Muslim immigrants. But we can't do anything about it without violating what we believe is a just society: No human should be punished for crimes another human committed…
>No human should be punished for crimes another human committed.
what about the crimes committed with approval, in the name and by the power vested by the other humans? When these other humans shield and harbor the committer of the crime?
Re: Journey: A refugee's odyssey from Syria to Sweden
#8It's unfortunate to me that it is impossible to have a discussion about how this kind of immigration dilutes European culture and identity. The prime minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, said[0] If we don't stop their entry, the problem that currently stands at 60,000 could grow to 600,000, and that threatens our existence as a Jewish and democratic state ... This phenomenon is very grave and threatens the social…
First of all, Israel is a special case. It has been founded artificially on a land that was predominantly inhabited by muslims, surrounded by countries predominantly inhabited by muslims. I won't dive into any discussion if that was a good idea, or if they were right to do that, I am just stating that a lot of non-muslims streamed into a place where there were lots of muslims. The idea that this jewish state, would m…
I never said that Europe would be "Islamified", although Europe is projected to be 8% Muslim by 2030[0], and not all immigration is from Islamic countries. For reference, Israel is 21% Muslim[1]. If your suburb becomes 50% muslim, it's certainly going to have a big effect even if other parts of the country remain unaffected.
I don't see how your argument about geography works. Not everyone in a neighboring country is going to try to claim refugee status. Netanyahu was referring to 60,000 refugees but this was a total over many years, while Sweden, a country of similar population size to Israel, accepted 31,000 refugees in 2014 [2] and will accept even more in 2015.
[0] http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/01/15/5-facts-abou...
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Israel
[2] http://www.migrationsverket.se/English/About-the-Migration-A...
Re: Journey: A refugee's odyssey from Syria to Sweden
#9It's unfortunate to me that it is impossible to have a discussion about how this kind of immigration dilutes European culture and identity. The prime minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, said[0] If we don't stop their entry, the problem that currently stands at 60,000 could grow to 600,000, and that threatens our existence as a Jewish and democratic state ... This phenomenon is very grave and threatens the social…
"dilutes European culture and identity" But how could these be diluted? Do you perhaps mean "change", "expand", "put into question"? And is it more important to save those fleeing for their lives or your sense of "undiluted" identity? (Moreover, an identity historically forged through their exploitation.) The prime minister of Israel should be reminded that Israel was created as a sanctuary for his people fleeing tho…
I think it's clear what I mean by dilution. When everyone has a similar viewpoint and cultural practices, it is much easier to maintain this when there are not large number of immigrants.
It's true that there are critics of Netanyahu. However his views are not extreme in Israeli politics, and he is not considered a pariah internationally. On the contrary, the news source "972 magazine" would be considered a political pariah in the US for its support of the BDS movement.
Re: Journey: A refugee's odyssey from Syria to Sweden
#10Earlier quoted context omitted.
First of all, Israel is a special case. It has been founded artificially on a land that was predominantly inhabited by muslims, surrounded by countries predominantly inhabited by muslims. I won't dive into any discussion if that was a good idea, or if they were right to do that, I am just stating that a lot of non-muslims streamed into a place where there were lots of muslims. The idea that this jewish state, would m…
I never said that Europe would be "Islamified", although Europe is projected to be 8% Muslim by 2030[0], and not all immigration is from Islamic countries. For reference, Israel is 21% Muslim[1]. If your suburb becomes 50% muslim, it's certainly going to have a big effect even if other parts of the country remain unaffected. I don't see how your argument about geography works. Not everyone in a neighboring country is…
>> If your suburb becomes 50% muslim, it's certainly going to have a big effect even if other parts of the country remain unaffected.
This.