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Silicon Valley’s Dark Secret: It’s All About Age (2010)

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Re: Silicon Valley’s Dark Secret: It’s All About Age (2010)

#21

Post by blisterpeanuts »

solve wrote: post #11
ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #5

I wonder if there's a difference between the SF Bay Area and the rest of the country, as far as ageism is concerned in tech.

Huge difference. CA companies and investors (e.g. YC) specifically require your age to the interviewers. Using YC as an example, many interviewers are happy to publicly boast about using age as primary factor - I can link to to some comments written here on HN. In some other places, e.g. NYC, this is all generally believed to be highly legally-risky and no respectable employer would ever consider doing it. Shame on y…

Can you provide some links (other than chatboard comments) to substantiate this claim that "CA companies and investors require your age"?

https://oag.ca.gov/publications/CRhandbook/ch2

Re: Silicon Valley’s Dark Secret: It’s All About Age (2010)

#22

Post by djrogers »

solve wrote: post #11
ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #5

I wonder if there's a difference between the SF Bay Area and the rest of the country, as far as ageism is concerned in tech.

Huge difference. CA companies and investors (e.g. YC) specifically require your age to the interviewers. Using YC as an example, many interviewers are happy to publicly boast about using age as primary factor - I can link to to some comments written here on HN. In some other places, e.g. NYC, this is all generally believed to be highly legally-risky and no respectable employer would ever consider doing it. Shame on y…

I have never been asked my age for a job in the valley, and when I interview others any direction I get regarding age is always to not ask.

*source: 13 years of valley employment and performed dozens of interviews

Re: Silicon Valley’s Dark Secret: It’s All About Age (2010)

#23

Post by SQL2219 »

I see a contradiction in this article:

"After 50, the mean salary of engineers was lower—by 17% for those with bachelors degrees, and by 14% for those with masters degrees and PhDs—than the salary of those younger than 50."

If 50 year old programmers are cheaper, why are they being discriminated against?

see here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9689232

Re: Silicon Valley’s Dark Secret: It’s All About Age (2010)

#24

Post by arink »

ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #5

I wonder if there's a difference between the SF Bay Area and the rest of the country, as far as ageism is concerned in tech.

There was a recent article in the Chicago Tribune about bringing dogs to work with the following quote:

"What we're trying to create here, it's lofty, open, we bring in lunch, we hire younger people. Part of creating the vibe is not just the space but the amenities. Bring in your dog."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/lifestyles/pets/ct-pets-office...

No idea if that counts as ageism. Is it any worse than mentioning "recent graduate" or "0 - 2 years experience" in your job advertisement?

Re: Silicon Valley’s Dark Secret: It’s All About Age (2010)

#25

Post by leaveyou »

I'm not "young" anymore and not "old" yet, but I'm quite saddened by this point of view: 'The young understand new technologies better than the old do, and are like a clean slate: they will rapidly learn the latest coding methods and techniques, and they don’t carry any “technology baggage”'. Software business seems mostly about exploitation of the naivety of the youngsters and less about software and programming.

Re: Silicon Valley’s Dark Secret: It’s All About Age (2010)

#26

Post by r0naa »

There is something I frankly don't understand.

Why would anyone discriminate against older, more experienced engineers? Tech companies are spending millions of dollars on their offices and employee-perks to attract and retain talent and yet they discriminate against the category of people who has the most experience?

It just boggles my mind.

I have a very limited perspective, but come from a country where the ageism is reversed. It is really hard to find work as a new grad. I am now living in Waterloo where the situation seems to be more balanced. But seriously, I would kill for a job where I have the chance to work alongside experienced engineers that can see the "bigger picture" and know a thousand tricks!

Could anyone explain where this obsession with youth is coming from? Is that a US or a SV thing?

Re: Silicon Valley’s Dark Secret: It’s All About Age (2010)

#27

Post by jakeway »

SQL2219 wrote: post #23

I see a contradiction in this article: "After 50, the mean salary of engineers was lower—by 17% for those with bachelors degrees, and by 14% for those with masters degrees and PhDs—than the salary of those younger than 50." If 50 year old programmers are cheaper, why are they being discriminated against? see here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9689232

Thats what this whole article is about. Older people usually have less ability to take a higher risk, due to family concerns, or other reasons. It is classic supply and demand. Younger programmers are more sought after, therefore demand higher pay.

Re: Silicon Valley’s Dark Secret: It’s All About Age (2010)

#30

Post by adevine »

sv_muppets_ wrote: post #10

Let's see - you can get these experienced engineers, who will build a proper platform, a robust architecture, a decent code base, and given the fact they have delivered before, a solution that will provide what the customers want. Or You can have these wet behind the ears fuckers straight from college who will just download a metric shit ton of code via gem install and npm, and then rebuild several wheels in JS, whil…

Yeah, because all experienced engineers are perfect and all "wet behind the ears fuckers straight from college" are idiots... Well, Watts Humphrey, creator of CMM, PSP and TSP, had a nice saying along the lines of "Most developers who think they have 20 years of experience actually have 1 year of experience 20 times."

VCs choose youth because, as a previous poster said, single people in their 20s have a much greater tolerance for risk, can work very long hours without family commitments, and are much more likely to not have preconceived ways of thinking how things "are supposed" to be done. For example, Paul Graham has said a bunch of times how much he hated the idea for AirBnB originally, and how lots of smart people (mostly smart, older, rich people) thought it was a horrible idea. However, at the time, Couch Surfing was already well known and popular, so I don't think it's much of a stretch to see how this could be made safer/more convenient and turned into a marketplace. Younger people were more comfortable with the idea of a shared space, while most older folks just thought "Who's going to want to sleep in some stranger's house?"

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