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What Broke the Magic Online Economy?

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Re: What Broke the Magic Online Economy?

#21

Post by Naga »

imancit wrote: post #11
gohrt wrote: post #10

Why do players think it's acceptable to have an "economy" for trading virtual gamepieces? Why don't they walk away and play game/culture that charges a flat fee or a time/usage-based subscription?

In short, because Magic is one of the best games ever designed, and this is the only sanctioned way to play the full game online. Magic online was created a long, long time ago before more modern concepts of game monetization (freemium / mtx based) were developed. It's ended up as something more akin to an online poker room than a gaming server.

I've tried other games that are similar to Magic, such as Hearthstone, but I always go back to Magic because there is nothing like it.

Re: What Broke the Magic Online Economy?

#22

Post by thaumasiotes »

carapace wrote: post #19
nosuchthing wrote: post #16

The whole concept of collectable cards feels like a scam, right alongside the freemium pay-for-virtual-clothing hustle.

When all my friends got into MtG back in high school I said, "I'll play but I'm going to make my own cards. I don't want to buy them from the store." But no one would go for it. I never understood. I used to say, "But there are no actual wizards at Wizards of the Coast."

I know someone who prints out color images of the cards he wants to play with and sticks them into sleeves as inserts. It works fine.

It's even easier and cheaper to insert a little strip of paper with a card name on it, though then you need to be familiar with what all the cards do.

Re: What Broke the Magic Online Economy?

#23

Post by branchless »

thaumasiotes wrote: post #22
carapace wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When all my friends got into MtG back in high school I said, "I'll play but I'm going to make my own cards. I don't want to buy them from the store." But no one would go for it. I never understood. I used to say, "But there are no actual wizards at Wizards of the Coast."

I know someone who prints out color images of the cards he wants to play with and sticks them into sleeves as inserts. It works fine. It's even easier and cheaper to insert a little strip of paper with a card name on it, though then you need to be familiar with what all the cards do.

My six year old came up with this idea for pokemon cards on his own this week. They are loving it - and so am I!

Re: What Broke the Magic Online Economy?

#24

Post by spiritplumber »

carapace wrote: post #19
nosuchthing wrote: post #16

The whole concept of collectable cards feels like a scam, right alongside the freemium pay-for-virtual-clothing hustle.

When all my friends got into MtG back in high school I said, "I'll play but I'm going to make my own cards. I don't want to buy them from the store." But no one would go for it. I never understood. I used to say, "But there are no actual wizards at Wizards of the Coast."

Yeah, that was a thing for us too circa 1996. It ended with there being two groups of players: "Poor" players that printed cards and had access to the entire card catalog and could build insane cheese, and "rich" players who didn't and didn't.

Then there were the my-dad-owns-a-textile-mill types who would learn a cheese from the print-it-yourselfers, spend millions of lire on cards, and replicate the cheese with the people who played with the official cards.

Re: What Broke the Magic Online Economy?

#25

Post by bsder »

Naga wrote: post #21
imancit wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In short, because Magic is one of the best games ever designed, and this is the only sanctioned way to play the full game online. Magic online was created a long, long time ago before more modern concepts of game monetization (freemium / mtx based) were developed. It's ended up as something more akin to an online poker room than a gaming server.

I've tried other games that are similar to Magic, such as Hearthstone, but I always go back to Magic because there is nothing like it.

Hearthstone is very well designed for what it is--an online-only Magic the Gathering that is accessible in a casual way.

I simply won't spend on Magic Online since I can't exit. In addition, why should I spend hundreds of dollars on something whose value can plunge drastically?

If you have actual physical cards, you can sell them. Powerful modern cards hold their value reasonably well.

Re: What Broke the Magic Online Economy?

#26

Post by whateverfor »

bsder wrote: post #25
Naga wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've tried other games that are similar to Magic, such as Hearthstone, but I always go back to Magic because there is nothing like it.

Hearthstone is very well designed for what it is--an online-only Magic the Gathering that is accessible in a casual way. I simply won't spend on Magic Online since I can't exit. In addition, why should I spend hundreds of dollars on something whose value can plunge drastically? If you have actual physical cards, you can sell them. Powerful modern cards hold their value reasonably well.

You can exit from MTGO pretty easily? There are automated bots that will buy your cards for tickets, and those same companies will give you cash for those tickets (95 cents per ticket right now, not a terrible rate).

Re: What Broke the Magic Online Economy?

#28

Post by PhasmaFelis »

gohrt wrote: post #10

Why do players think it's acceptable to have an "economy" for trading virtual gamepieces? Why don't they walk away and play game/culture that charges a flat fee or a time/usage-based subscription?

Basically, because Wizards of the Coast came up with the core concepts of the pay-to-win money treadmill game 15 years before the App Store launched--low cost to start playing, psychological impetus to spend more money on a regular basis, appealing to kids and teens with lots of free time and a willingness to badger their parents for money, social enough that players will stay in the game for years because all their friends play. It's kind of breathtaking when you look at the parallels now.

They had that entire previously-untapped goldmine of a market space to themselves (or near enough, given the quality of their early competition) for long enough to get really culturally entrenched, and that meant they were able to shift the model online (and keep a much greater chunk of the profits) without as much resistance as you might expect--if you already believe that 5 cents' worth of ink and cardboard can be worth dozens or hundreds of dollars if it's got the right picture on it, it's a lot easier to believe that the same picture on your computer screen can be worth the same.

Re: What Broke the Magic Online Economy?

#29

Post by cdr »

hansjorg wrote: post #14

Planet Money on NPR did a piece recently on how WotC avoided some of these issues and made the card game such a success twenty plus years ago. There's also some interesting anecdotes regarding the Hasbro buy out. http://www.npr.org/sections/money/2015/03/11/392381112/episo...

That was not well researched though, if at all - it's by complete outsiders with little actual knowledge of what happened. Even the person they talk to (Skaff Elias IIRC) gives them a dubious offhand anecdote. It's a Malcolm Gladwell level story.

Re: What Broke the Magic Online Economy?

#30

Post by cdr »

nosuchthing wrote: post #16

The whole concept of collectable cards feels like a scam, right alongside the freemium pay-for-virtual-clothing hustle.

You seem to be overlooking a huge thing - collectibles have an (above-the-board) resale value. While perhaps the market crashes someday, for 25 years Magic cards have done nothing but go up in value. I'm personally up tens of thousands of dollars lifetime from paper Magic, and some thousands from dabbling in digital. And all of it was purchased for play, not investment.

Non-collectible virtual goods have dubious resale value. You can technically sell game accounts I suppose, but it's inevitably against Terms of Service and commensurately difficult.

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