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Working at Microsoft (2004)

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Re: Working at Microsoft (2004)

#21

Post by icefox »

> At Microsoft, I've had access to the source code for Halo 1 & 2, Internet Explorer, MDAC, MSXML, the .NET Frameworks and CLR, SQL Server, SQLXML, Virtual PC, Visual Studio, Windows, the Xbox and Xbox Live, and probably several other projects that I've forgotten about. Does it get better than this?

This is horrible! Sure you get to see the internal stuff, but in 2004 you were also forbidden from looking at any open source software. So sure you could see a handful of software titles that you can list on your fingers, but the millions of other programs you couldn't. How can someone that says "I love source code. I love reading it, writing it, thinking about it." possibly have been happy about being walled off from the rest of the software world?

The last section on influence was wrong in hindsight. Sure Microsoft had influence in the 90's, but if you joined them in 2004 I can hardly think of them as influential in the last decade. Incremental improvement with a lot of churn for churn sake.

Re: Working at Microsoft (2004)

#22

Post by fapjacks »

jjcm wrote: post #9

Since this blog is a bit dated, here are some things that have changed in the last 10 years from the perspective of someone who works here now. First some background to fill in the time between when he wrote this and now: When Vista dropped, public opinion of Microsoft started to go out the door. That was right around the same time that Apple released its first iphone (2007), and with a failed OS and a hugely success…

As someone who hasn't used an MS OS for at least ten years (though Star Citizen has forced me to), the open source thing going on is really starting to turn my head. Now, that being said, I feel like MS has a long way to go before I'll start to prefer it over *nix (I would love to see some of the kernel source, for example), but it's a direction I am very pleased to see Microsoft headed in. I have mad respect for the people at MS pushing this forward.

Re: Working at Microsoft (2004)

#23

Post by nemo44x »

jjcm wrote: post #9

Since this blog is a bit dated, here are some things that have changed in the last 10 years from the perspective of someone who works here now. First some background to fill in the time between when he wrote this and now: When Vista dropped, public opinion of Microsoft started to go out the door. That was right around the same time that Apple released its first iphone (2007), and with a failed OS and a hugely success…

I'm happy to hear the culture at your company has improved but I don't know if Microsoft is considered "cool" - or whatever that means.

Anyone who has been around long enough (and not really that long all things considered) knows better than to ever trust Microsoft. Their whole model has been, and always will be: "Embrace, extend, extinguish".

So Microsoft is opening some things up? They've had no choice as they are being left behind more and more. They know the modern developer is not as interested in an expensive IDE and MSDN account when there are many alternatives. We are creating so much more software than before and the top down model Microsoft sold has become niche after many years of dominance.

Any open project Microsoft gets involved in and any open standard they get involved in should come with a warning label. Why? Because this is in their DNA.

Re: Working at Microsoft (2004)

#24

Post by ExpiredLink »

jjcm wrote: post #9

Since this blog is a bit dated, here are some things that have changed in the last 10 years from the perspective of someone who works here now. First some background to fill in the time between when he wrote this and now: When Vista dropped, public opinion of Microsoft started to go out the door. That was right around the same time that Apple released its first iphone (2007), and with a failed OS and a hugely success…

> The stuff we're working on is exciting and the corporate culture is starting to get healthy.

... because the "positive" energy retired.

Re: Working at Microsoft (2004)

#25

Post by goalieca »

tdicola wrote: post #12
jjcm wrote: post #9

Since this blog is a bit dated, here are some things that have changed in the last 10 years from the perspective of someone who works here now. First some background to fill in the time between when he wrote this and now: When Vista dropped, public opinion of Microsoft started to go out the door. That was right around the same time that Apple released its first iphone (2007), and with a failed OS and a hugely success…

Err, that's kinda greatly simplifying things. I'd say the last 10 years can be described as: - ~2005 to ~2009 was the Ray Ozzie era. Ozzie took over the role of Chief Software Architect from Bill Gates in 2006 and the company, internally and externally, was focused on very ambitious projects. Software 'architects' were common on every team and usually doing something the 'right' way trumped shipping quickly and itera…

Sometimes I find "architects" curious folks. XAML was developed during the ray ozzie era right? That certainly has a "right way" with "Model-view-view-model" levels of abstraction insanity. Perhaps simpler is better.

Re: Working at Microsoft (2004)

#26

Post by seanmcdirmid »

nemo44x wrote: post #23
jjcm wrote: post #9

Since this blog is a bit dated, here are some things that have changed in the last 10 years from the perspective of someone who works here now. First some background to fill in the time between when he wrote this and now: When Vista dropped, public opinion of Microsoft started to go out the door. That was right around the same time that Apple released its first iphone (2007), and with a failed OS and a hugely success…

I'm happy to hear the culture at your company has improved but I don't know if Microsoft is considered "cool" - or whatever that means. Anyone who has been around long enough (and not really that long all things considered) knows better than to ever trust Microsoft. Their whole model has been, and always will be: "Embrace, extend, extinguish". So Microsoft is opening some things up? They've had no choice as they are…

Anyone who has been around long enough knows not to trust Google, Apple, Facebook, Oracle, ... Microsoft is not uniquely untrustworthy when it comes to big multi-faceted companies. As for DNA, I haven't seen any dodgy behavior in the OSS area for 5+ years, and nothing like EEE since I started working here in 2007.

Re: Working at Microsoft (2004)

#27

Post by axy108 »

icefox wrote: post #21

> At Microsoft, I've had access to the source code for Halo 1 & 2, Internet Explorer, MDAC, MSXML, the .NET Frameworks and CLR, SQL Server, SQLXML, Virtual PC, Visual Studio, Windows, the Xbox and Xbox Live, and probably several other projects that I've forgotten about. Does it get better than this? This is horrible! Sure you get to see the internal stuff, but in 2004 you were also forbidden from looking at any open…

>you were also forbidden from looking at any open source software

For work/internal use, but I'm pretty sure he kept using it in his free time.

Re: Working at Microsoft (2004)

#28

Post by eva1984 »

jjcm wrote: post #9

Since this blog is a bit dated, here are some things that have changed in the last 10 years from the perspective of someone who works here now. First some background to fill in the time between when he wrote this and now: When Vista dropped, public opinion of Microsoft started to go out the door. That was right around the same time that Apple released its first iphone (2007), and with a failed OS and a hugely success…

Microsoft is definitely, under the lead of Satya, becoming more open and friendly. But does it necessarily make it cooler? That is very much left to debate.

The following claim might be a little generalized, but I believe Microsoft is still largely considered as an software company, who sells licenses and units of products for a living, and very much enterprise focused. This is quite different from the image that younger companies, especially those service-oriented ones, show or at least try to show to the public, something that is more ubiquitous and intimate.

Re: Working at Microsoft (2004)

#30

Post by wwosik »

goalieca wrote: post #25
tdicola wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Err, that's kinda greatly simplifying things. I'd say the last 10 years can be described as: - ~2005 to ~2009 was the Ray Ozzie era. Ozzie took over the role of Chief Software Architect from Bill Gates in 2006 and the company, internally and externally, was focused on very ambitious projects. Software 'architects' were common on every team and usually doing something the 'right' way trumped shipping quickly and itera…

Sometimes I find "architects" curious folks. XAML was developed during the ray ozzie era right? That certainly has a "right way" with "Model-view-view-model" levels of abstraction insanity. Perhaps simpler is better.

MVVM is a very good model though. I certainly enjoyed working with it.
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