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What the Next Generation Needs Is Math, Not Programming

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Re: What the Next Generation Needs Is Math, Not Programming

#121

Post by sanoli »

yellowapple wrote: post #73
sanoli wrote: post #61

Teach kids basic arithmetic WELL, teach them logic in a fun way, find a way to get them to like reading and think critically about what they read. That's fine for me. I'd do away with all the rest of math (algebra, trig, etc) and have it as optional in high school. Really, if you got the stuff above right as a kid, you don't need to learn trigonometry if you don't want to at the time.

I'd personally throw in something like geometry, which (at least when I took it back in my middle school days; maybe my experience was atypical) had a heavy emphasis on mathematical proofs, how they worked, why they were important, the differences between postulates and theorems, how to prove theorems, etc. Whereas most of my prior and future math courses (particularly algebra) ended up feeling like an endless barrag…

Now that I think of it, I remember having lots of fun with geometry, trying to figure things out on my own. I still remember the first time I got to prove Pythagora's on my own, or the formula for the volume of a pyramid. It felt so awesome that I still long today for a math course where you start from zero and the teacher just guides you into figuring stuff out yourself, one by one (Pythagora's, Pi, formulas for volume, etc).

Re: What the Next Generation Needs Is Math, Not Programming

#122

Post by sklogic »

ewzimm wrote: post #115
sklogic wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not care about capitalists. They somehow manage to exclude themselves from this unfair redistribution anyway, so the most of the tax burden is on the hard working middle class. As for the people in the poor countries, they're getting richer because of this process, to an extent that the capitalists have to move their cheap labour manufacturing further and further - just see the trends in textile, for example. So…

There's definitely progress being made, but I'm sure we could do better. Soviet-style central control of wealth distribution is at an all-time high with banks and corporations colluding in place of a political dictatorship. I'm looking forward to new types of software-enabled currency and exchange that aren't so easy to manipulate by just a few people.

> but I'm sure we could do better

It will happen over time. Levelling is an unavoidable consequence of the globalisation.

> new types of software-enabled currency and exchange

Yes, this can be quite a game changer, may even remove the banks from the picture entirely, but, again, it all will need time.

Re: What the Next Generation Needs Is Math, Not Programming

#123

Post by chiaro »

sklogic wrote: post #116
paulojreis wrote: post #12

I'm going to deliberately try to be controversial, but in order to spur discussion. What the next generation needs is more soft/social sciences, not STEM. tl;dr of my point: we know dangerously more about technology than about people, their needs as individuals and their needs as a society. Somewhere along the line we should stop throwing technology at people just because we can, and start to focus on the right solut…

An extreme of a society where everyone mastered the soft skills is a society of master manipulators. Not sure it's an utopia.

soft skills != the soft sciences.

Re: What the Next Generation Needs Is Math, Not Programming

#125

Post by S4M »

nmrm2 wrote: post #113
S4M wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For me Actuarial work falls into "Quant" work, and accounting has nothing to do with maths.

> accounting has nothing to do with maths. Sure, but like I said, with a Mathematics degree you can self-study and get an intro-level position pretty quickly. Otherwise, I guess you can go to grad school or become a teacher? Or, certain types of software developers get to do interesting math as well.

I am not interested in doing anything related to accounting, except for my own business.

> Or, certain types of software developers get to do interesting math as well.

Yes! But sadly, those type of positions are rarely advertised - well, you could say that Quants and Data Scientists are some kind of software developers as well, but the maths needed in other fields are kept very secret.

Now, I am not looking for a job at the moment - I graduated in 2006 and am working on my own thing now (maths related) - but I was just lamenting that people complain that more mathematicians are needed without providing concrete jobs for them.

Re: What the Next Generation Needs Is Math, Not Programming

#126

Post by Toast_ »

Delmania wrote: post #16

What the next generation really needs lessons in: - Humility - Empathy - Patience - Self restraint and control - Mindfulness/Awareness - Disappointment - Resilience - Communication - Listening - Learning - Financial independence and literacy - Critical thinking - Problem solving - Self acceptance Then we can focus on what area the person can best contribute in. Not everyone is going to suited for a job in programming…

The majority of what you said can be accomplished by Philosophy.

Re: What the Next Generation Needs Is Math, Not Programming

#127

Post by [deleted] »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #94
Jacqued wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're employing an extremely narrow definition of critical thinking. The ability to question everything you read, hear and learn in search of the truth (what is ), or, most likely, of more accurate or useful representations of it, is not dependent of your math or even science knowledge. At the end of the day, intellectual curiosity and a willingness to understand things are what you need to get ahead.

I don't think that's right. I read a lot of people who can spout off lots of pretty words on a topic, yet they can't actually begin to reason about it. E.g., lots of people will wax poetic about "critical thinking", yet they can't actually describe a way to determine whether someone lacks it or not. Math and science are, like it or not, the most effective tools we've cooked up to understand the world.

[deleted]

Re: What the Next Generation Needs Is Math, Not Programming

#129

Post by ccortes »

gizi wrote: post #63
jandrewrogers wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All things that exist are mathematical objects and programs. Algorithmic information theory asserts that my cup of coffee is actually a program. While mathematics is important to computer programming, for most practical purposes it is of limited utility unless you are inventing new computer science. Knowing how to use a relational databases correctly requires no formal set theory. Understanding how to build a massive…

> Knowing how to use a relational databases correctly requires no formal set theory. Very true, I guess. But the other way around, someone who has used relational databases, will immediately understand formal set theory and find it absolutely trivial. Another example would be regular expressions. Anybody who has ever used them will immediately recognize what Kleene's closure is about and effortlessly deal with it. I…

>someone who has used relational databases, will immediately understand formal set theory and find it absolutely trivial.

This is simply not true, you may understand the very basics of it, but by no means you will understand set theory and much less find it trval by just using relational databases.

Re: What the Next Generation Needs Is Math, Not Programming

#130

Post by joeclark77 »

innguest wrote: post #99
joeclark77 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If by "soft/social sciences" you mean real substantive disciplines like history, philosophy, civics, and the arts, I agree with you. Currently "social studies" in school is a bit of a trash bucket into which gets thrown every personal ideology and pet project that some teacher got her feminism or social work or grievance-studies BA in. It's the worst subject in most curricula, even worse than English. The problem is…

You're very right. History, Philosophy and Civics are still in their pristine condition. However, psychology, sociology, economics, anthropology and especially communication have been systematically taken over, and have demanded self-censorship of those fields. When a field self-censors it can no longer be considered to be doing intellectually honest work. So they are dismissed as not Science.

Just what I meant. The problem for public schools is that there are a million grads with degrees in social work, poli sci, pyschology, sociology, grievance studies (womens studies, etc), and other fake sciences, many of them ready and willing to be teachers. People with degrees in history or the classics, by contrast, are almost as hard to find as math and science majors willing to work for public school salaries. (Unions being what they are, you can't offer math and science teachers twice what you offer the "social studies" teachers, despite the fact that they're worth it.)
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