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What the Next Generation Needs Is Math, Not Programming

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Re: What the Next Generation Needs Is Math, Not Programming

#101

What the next generation really needs lessons in: - Humility - Empathy - Patience - Self restraint and control - Mindfulness/Awareness - Disappointment - Resilience - Communication - Listening - Learning - Financial independence and literacy - Critical thinking - Problem solving - Self acceptance Then we can focus on what area the person can best contribute in. Not everyone is going to suited for a job in programming…

Mathematics is an essential component of problem solving and critical thinking.

Re: What the Next Generation Needs Is Math, Not Programming

#102

What the next generation really needs lessons in: - Humility - Empathy - Patience - Self restraint and control - Mindfulness/Awareness - Disappointment - Resilience - Communication - Listening - Learning - Financial independence and literacy - Critical thinking - Problem solving - Self acceptance Then we can focus on what area the person can best contribute in. Not everyone is going to suited for a job in programming…

What the next generation really needs is an economy where everyone can make a decent living with a modest effort, without having to desperately "outcompete" other job seekers. The US had that kind of economy at some point. Since we haven't lost any arcane secrets since then, it must be still achievable today.

This is only possible if you take from those who work the hardest and redistribute among the lazy. Been there. Luckily, Soviet Union is gone now.

Re: What the Next Generation Needs Is Math, Not Programming

#103
post #23

I'm going to deliberately try to be controversial, but in order to spur discussion. What the next generation needs is more soft/social sciences, not STEM. tl;dr of my point: we know dangerously more about technology than about people, their needs as individuals and their needs as a society. Somewhere along the line we should stop throwing technology at people just because we can, and start to focus on the right solut…

We don't know about social sciences because it is a heavily politically charged subject. The most interesting and potentially enlightening experiments are also probably illegal. That's why it's hard. And you ALSO need a branch of mathematics, called statistics, and probably many more. You can't simply pour lots of money into it without any hard science and expect useful results. tl;dr: it's not about quantity, it's a…

> We don't know about social sciences because it is a heavily politically charged subject.

It did not used to be that way. It started to change after WW2 and even stronger after 1967. Social "sciences" were made political because a group of radical influential thinkers were interested in furthering studies that would disprove the role of genetics, biology and darwinism in social studies. Before this shift, social studies were not politicized.

Re: What the Next Generation Needs Is Math, Not Programming

#104
post #66
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you can teach useful levels of Critical Thinking without a solid understanding of Math, Science, and Human behavior. But, programming can also help people think more deeply about problems. There is this huge realization that computers and by extension reality does not care about what's in your head only what is. You can argue that Math has similar levels of precision, but once people start getting parti…

I think you're employing an extremely narrow definition of critical thinking. The ability to question everything you read, hear and learn in search of the truth (what is ), or, most likely, of more accurate or useful representations of it, is not dependent of your math or even science knowledge. At the end of the day, intellectual curiosity and a willingness to understand things are what you need to get ahead.

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Re: What the Next Generation Needs Is Math, Not Programming

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What the next generation really needs is an economy where everyone can make a decent living with a modest effort, without having to desperately "outcompete" other job seekers. The US had that kind of economy at some point. Since we haven't lost any arcane secrets since then, it must be still achievable today.

This is only possible if you take from those who work the hardest and redistribute among the lazy. Been there. Luckily, Soviet Union is gone now.

Taking the wealth produced by the hardest working people in poor countries and redistributing it to lazy rich people sounds exactly like the current state of global capitalism.

Re: What the Next Generation Needs Is Math, Not Programming

#106
post #44

According to the Curry-Howard correspondence, all mathematical proofs are actually programs. This is normal. A proof is a series of steps, and if you unambiguously describe these steps, a computer will obviously be able to execute them. Furthermore, since Alonso Church successfully proposed a Turing-complete axiomatization based on just functions (even numbers are just functions), a computer program is clearly a math…

>all mathematical proofs are actually programs

This is not true. Only a subset is stated by Curry-Howard correspondence.

Re: What the Next Generation Needs Is Math, Not Programming

#107

Here's the challenge faced by strong students. At a recent science fair, a strong 8th grader presented a simulation where you could fly a rocket around a plant, with the ability to change gravity, thrust, etc. I asked if he had explored the math (since this was a soluble problem.) The answer "The math is too difficult - I do it numerically, much easier that way." There is great advantage in re-using the work of other…

I'm interested in this but I have no idea what you are talking about. What does "numerically" mean and how does it allow one to implement rigid body physics in a "much easier way" than using the known formulae?

Re: What the Next Generation Needs Is Math, Not Programming

#108
post #66
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think you can teach useful levels of Critical Thinking without a solid understanding of Math, Science, and Human behavior. But, programming can also help people think more deeply about problems. There is this huge realization that computers and by extension reality does not care about what's in your head only what is. You can argue that Math has similar levels of precision, but once people start getting parti…

I think you're employing an extremely narrow definition of critical thinking. The ability to question everything you read, hear and learn in search of the truth (what is ), or, most likely, of more accurate or useful representations of it, is not dependent of your math or even science knowledge. At the end of the day, intellectual curiosity and a willingness to understand things are what you need to get ahead.

Ability to reason is entirely mathematical. Only the smartest can find solutions without applying formal methods, the rest of us have to employ mathematics in order to tell truth from lies.

Re: What the Next Generation Needs Is Math, Not Programming

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment is why I mentioned financial literacy and financial independence. The economy is a huge system with many moving parts, so while I do agree with your statement, I think you'd get a better ROI by teaching people how to manage money. I'm a huge fan of "Your Money or Your Life" and by extension the Financial Integrity program, which advocates for people to rethink their relationship with money as well teache…

Money management only really works when you make more than enough to afford the basics...half the population struggles just for housing, food, healthcare, and transportation.

Money management works at all levels. It is just a lot easier when you have more to manage because your tolerance for error is higher, and you can thus be much sloppier and spend less time on it.

What I don't think works so well is teaching everyone to be good at money management. Ignoring the other possible contributors to being very poor (culture, prejudice, whatever), there is undeniably a component due to intelligence. We should thus expect some portion of these very poor to be incapable of managing money, no matter how much they have, and a better policy would be to manage their money for them. This already happens for some mental hospital patients that are out in the real world but need support for medication and housing and food, and if you give them too much unrestricted money instead they'll just buy a PS4 or something else that's shiny and the money will be gone, they'll have to sell their PS4 in a few months to keep paying the rent, and then a while later they'll be evicted due to non-payment. Better to give them a smaller amount of unrestricted money on top of the other aid, but in my experience the same spending patterns emerge (that is, spending it all), very few save, or save beyond what is necessary for a particular shiny toy. There is also a disincentive from getting a job that pays too much income, because their benefits are based on income-received and can be taken away very quickly, but that's another issue. My point is that such individuality-invading money-management could probably be beneficial for more than just the mentally ill, but it will be immediately dismissed by people intelligent enough to manage their own money and who wouldn't be affected by this as nanny-statism.

Re: What the Next Generation Needs Is Math, Not Programming

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money management only really works when you make more than enough to afford the basics...half the population struggles just for housing, food, healthcare, and transportation.

Many of whom are burning piles of money on $75/month smartphones and television subscriptions (with HBO so they can keep up with the Jones' who are also underwater).

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