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What the Next Generation Needs Is Math, Not Programming

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Re: What the Next Generation Needs Is Math, Not Programming

#31

Post by chiaro »

invisible_dust wrote: post #21
paulojreis wrote: post #12

I'm going to deliberately try to be controversial, but in order to spur discussion. What the next generation needs is more soft/social sciences, not STEM. tl;dr of my point: we know dangerously more about technology than about people, their needs as individuals and their needs as a society. Somewhere along the line we should stop throwing technology at people just because we can, and start to focus on the right solut…

I honestly think the last thing anyone needs is more sociologists. I would prefer studies oriented around the humanities.

>I would prefer studies oriented around the humanities.

You don't consider sociologists to be the least bit concerned about human cultures and experiences?

Re: What the Next Generation Needs Is Math, Not Programming

#32

Post by JuanSoto »

codingdave wrote: post #8

What students need is the ability to self-teach. They need to be able to recognize when there is a gap in their knowledge, know how to find instruction in those topics, and have the motivation to follow through on actually learning it. If children gain those skills by the time they are adults, they can correct any faults in their educational paths.

>What students need is the ability to self-teach. They need to be able to recognize when there is a gap in their knowledge, know how to find instruction in those topics, and have the motivation to follow through on actually learning it.

In my university, this is what separates the good CS grads from the bad. You have no idea how many students expect the professor to hold their hand through a lab or project and are unable/refuse to learn on their own through Google, the textbook, or the official documentation.

Re: What the Next Generation Needs Is Math, Not Programming

#33

Post by paulojreis »

Shorel wrote: post #23
paulojreis wrote: post #12

I'm going to deliberately try to be controversial, but in order to spur discussion. What the next generation needs is more soft/social sciences, not STEM. tl;dr of my point: we know dangerously more about technology than about people, their needs as individuals and their needs as a society. Somewhere along the line we should stop throwing technology at people just because we can, and start to focus on the right solut…

We don't know about social sciences because it is a heavily politically charged subject. The most interesting and potentially enlightening experiments are also probably illegal. That's why it's hard. And you ALSO need a branch of mathematics, called statistics, and probably many more. You can't simply pour lots of money into it without any hard science and expect useful results. tl;dr: it's not about quantity, it's a…

> The most interesting and potentially enlightening experiments are also probably illegal.

I fully agree with your points. However, regarding this one in particular, I would like to add that this shouldn't stop the harnessing of already existing knowledge in the social sciences to better shape the products we build.

I mean, you're totally right; there's a lot of knowledge "locked" in the difficulties related to studying humans. However, we know some stuff about people and their behaviour. A relevant amount of stuff I would say. And that stuff isn't being applied when we create a technical solution to a human problem; the solution is almost solely defined by technical aspects. We don't know much, but we know enough to do better than what we do with technology today, human-wise.

(At least, better than defining "UX work" as pixel-pushing in Photoshop or Illustrator)

Re: What the Next Generation Needs Is Math, Not Programming

#34

Post by chiaro »

joeclark77 wrote: post #20
paulojreis wrote: post #12

I'm going to deliberately try to be controversial, but in order to spur discussion. What the next generation needs is more soft/social sciences, not STEM. tl;dr of my point: we know dangerously more about technology than about people, their needs as individuals and their needs as a society. Somewhere along the line we should stop throwing technology at people just because we can, and start to focus on the right solut…

If by "soft/social sciences" you mean real substantive disciplines like history, philosophy, civics, and the arts, I agree with you. Currently "social studies" in school is a bit of a trash bucket into which gets thrown every personal ideology and pet project that some teacher got her feminism or social work or grievance-studies BA in. It's the worst subject in most curricula, even worse than English. The problem is…

What kind of degree are you talking about when you say "social studies"?

Re: What the Next Generation Needs Is Math, Not Programming

#35

Post by meesterdude »

Delmania wrote: post #16

What the next generation really needs lessons in: - Humility - Empathy - Patience - Self restraint and control - Mindfulness/Awareness - Disappointment - Resilience - Communication - Listening - Learning - Financial independence and literacy - Critical thinking - Problem solving - Self acceptance Then we can focus on what area the person can best contribute in. Not everyone is going to suited for a job in programming…

I'm glad to see a comment like this; I feel precisely the same way.

Re: What the Next Generation Needs Is Math, Not Programming

#36

Post by chiaro »

paulojreis wrote: post #12

I'm going to deliberately try to be controversial, but in order to spur discussion. What the next generation needs is more soft/social sciences, not STEM. tl;dr of my point: we know dangerously more about technology than about people, their needs as individuals and their needs as a society. Somewhere along the line we should stop throwing technology at people just because we can, and start to focus on the right solut…

Agreed. STEM has proved incalculably valuable in servicing the lowest (most essential) tiers of Maslow's pyramid, but the higher ones (love through to self-actualization) require more nuanced investigation. As society progresses, people worry less about these tiers, like hunger, and it's not unlikely that the primary concerns of future generations will be emotional/social.

Re: What the Next Generation Needs Is Math, Not Programming

#37

Post by veddox »

> Today, we can get away with ‘knowing’ how Google works without understanding what a ‘principal eigenvector’ is. Tomorrow, we need to absolutely know that.

Part of the advancement of technology is that fewer and fewer people actually understand how stuff works. What percentage of the population has any notion of how a computer works under the hood? How many people understand how our national power grid works? Our sewage system? Our cars? As our world gets more sophisticated, we specialize; we have to. Sure, there will be people who will have to know about eigenvectors tomorrow - but do we all? Not by a long shot.

Re: What the Next Generation Needs Is Math, Not Programming

#39

Post by fuzzieozzie »

codingdave wrote: post #8

What students need is the ability to self-teach. They need to be able to recognize when there is a gap in their knowledge, know how to find instruction in those topics, and have the motivation to follow through on actually learning it. If children gain those skills by the time they are adults, they can correct any faults in their educational paths.

Is self-teach 'newspeak' for learn? You learn by observing, researching and practicing. I guess I am getting old.

Re: What the Next Generation Needs Is Math, Not Programming

#40

Post by fuzzieozzie »

Here's the challenge faced by strong students. At a recent science fair, a strong 8th grader presented a simulation where you could fly a rocket around a plant, with the ability to change gravity, thrust, etc. I asked if he had explored the math (since this was a soluble problem.) The answer "The math is too difficult - I do it numerically, much easier that way."

There is great advantage in re-using the work of others, but in order to advance the frontiers of knowledge people truly need to understand the underlying assumptions and mathematics.

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