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Lost Brother in Yosemite

nytimes.com

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Re: Lost Brother in Yosemite

#41

Post by baddox »

mc32 wrote: post #34
davidw wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just everyone's preferences rather than anything objective then. Perhaps those horseback riders damage the serenity of the mountain bike riders or the hikers by crapping all over the trail. Well, their horses, I mean. Also, remember that horses are not an indigenous species in recorded history in North America.

People aren't indigenous to the americas either, having introduced ourselves but a dozen or two thousand years ago. I don't think one should consider nativity very much when deciding if something is good or not in a given context. More what the impact is, irrespective of nativity. Never the less, bikes are even less native than horses... At least horses are organic.

Also, there was a point where the Earth existed but humans didn't exist. So yes, appeals to nature are always weak.

Re: Lost Brother in Yosemite

#42

Post by baddox »

cromulent wrote: post #11

Last time I commented on this topic on HN, someone called Dean a "career criminal". BASE is dangerous. Wingsuit proximity flying is super dangerous, whether from a helicopter or from an object. However, humans have spirit and some much more than others. These people are generally awesome. I know a few of them. We should celebrate them, and mourn them. Maybe they aren't the Wright brothers or Chuck Yeager, but there a…

Calling someone a "career criminal" is not a sufficient criticism.

Re: Lost Brother in Yosemite

#43

Post by galago »

vannevar wrote: post #31
davidw wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> mountain biking A heavy, shod horse tromping around and pooping all over the place is going to do far more trail damage than mountain bikes.

But there are probably an order of magnitude (or two) fewer riders than bikers.

In may be purely aesthetic, with no basis, but as a hiker I hate sharing a trail with cyclists. In a weird unsubstantiated way, I feel like horses are like other hikers. I've never had a horse like, gallop by me on a trial.

Re: Lost Brother in Yosemite

#44

Post by [deleted] »

carsonbaker wrote: post #12

I think part of the reason base jumping is banned in Yosemite has to do with the spectacle of it. The National Park system was founded with a mission to preserve the serenity of our land, and to give its visitors an opportunity to experience solitude. But Yosemite Village is a lot like a city today. Unless you get more than a day's hike away from the valley floor, there's no hope of finding solitude or serenity. The…

[deleted]

Re: Lost Brother in Yosemite

#46

Post by batbomb »

galago wrote: post #43
vannevar wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But there are probably an order of magnitude (or two) fewer riders than bikers.

In may be purely aesthetic, with no basis, but as a hiker I hate sharing a trail with cyclists. In a weird unsubstantiated way, I feel like horses are like other hikers. I've never had a horse like, gallop by me on a trial.

This is the number one reason why I hate sharing trails with cyclists. I've never seen a horse going over 6MPH, which is a light jogging speed, and they tend to go even slower downhill. Set a universal speed limit of 10mph on the trail at all times, which is a reasonable upper limit for horses and trail runners, and I don't think you'd see many cyclists.

Re: Lost Brother in Yosemite

#47

Post by runamok »

davidw wrote: post #21
carsonbaker wrote: post #12

I think part of the reason base jumping is banned in Yosemite has to do with the spectacle of it. The National Park system was founded with a mission to preserve the serenity of our land, and to give its visitors an opportunity to experience solitude. But Yosemite Village is a lot like a city today. Unless you get more than a day's hike away from the valley floor, there's no hope of finding solitude or serenity. The…

> mountain biking A heavy, shod horse tromping around and pooping all over the place is going to do far more trail damage than mountain bikes.

I wonder if that's true. It's incredible how deep chutes get dug on heavily used mountain bike trails. They might contribute more heavily to erosion because the surface area is so much smaller. Sort of how a woman in high heels has more pounds per square feet exerted compared to an elephant. Also probably depends on the terrain.

A ref: https://www.imba.com/resources/research/trail-science/enviro...

Re: Lost Brother in Yosemite

#48

Post by stickfigure »

maaku wrote: post #30
davidw wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> mountain biking A heavy, shod horse tromping around and pooping all over the place is going to do far more trail damage than mountain bikes.

The damage is to the serenity enjoyed by the people hiking or horseback riding, not the trail itself.

As a hiker, I would much rather step aside for an occasional biker than deal with the huge, easily startled, smelly beasts that shit all over the trails.

Re: Lost Brother in Yosemite

#49

Post by ahlatimer »

cjensen wrote: post #36
cromulent wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, but there is some hypocrisy going on. They were created "to conserve the scenery and the natural and historic objects and wildlife therein, and to provide for the enjoyment of the same in such manner and by such means as will leave them unimpaired for the enjoyment of future generations." I think the jumpers are not impairing them for future generations, but some others are. More than 60 people have died on Hal…

Jumpers interfere with scenery and the enjoyment of the same. Choosing to allow some things while disallowing others is not hypocrisy. It's thoughtful decision-making.

> Jumpers interfere with scenery and the enjoyment of the same.

How is this particular to BASE as opposed to any of the myriad of other things that people are allowed to do in national parks? It seems to me that a horse blocking my view would interfere with scenery, or seeing a line of people walking up the cables, or climbers dotting the peak, or any number of other things would interfere just as much, if not more. A BASE jump is over in minutes. It can take days to climb some of the bigger faces.

Re: Lost Brother in Yosemite

#50

Post by eunoia »

japhyr wrote: post #28
eunoia wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Part of the reason it's so dangerous is because it's illegal Part of the reason it's illegal is because it's so dangerous. The argument goes that park services have limited resources for search and rescue. Engaging in such an inherently dangerous activity inevitably causes a lot of incidents draining those resources. I like BASE and fully support those who choose to participate. But maybe banning BASE in the parks…

> Engaging in such an inherently dangerous activity inevitably causes a lot of incidents draining those resources. I've done rescue work in Alaska for most of the last ten years, and I've followed rescue-related issues fairly well for a long time. Elite athletes like Dean and Graham do not drain rescue resources. The bulk of rescue work centers around ordinary people who get into situations where they find themselves…

I like this a lot. Thanks for your insight.

Edit for substance: I like it because it portrays them as constructive members of a resilient community instead of as drains on a public fund. People are more important than numbers and it wasn't my intention to argue otherwise.

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