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Lost Brother in Yosemite

nytimes.com

11–20 of 72 posts

Re: Lost Brother in Yosemite

#11
Last time I commented on this topic on HN, someone called Dean a "career criminal".

BASE is dangerous. Wingsuit proximity flying is super dangerous, whether from a helicopter or from an object.

However, humans have spirit and some much more than others. These people are generally awesome. I know a few of them. We should celebrate them, and mourn them. Maybe they aren't the Wright brothers or Chuck Yeager, but there are still frontiers out there and these guys are pushing them back.

Re: Lost Brother in Yosemite

#12
I think part of the reason base jumping is banned in Yosemite has to do with the spectacle of it. The National Park system was founded with a mission to preserve the serenity of our land, and to give its visitors an opportunity to experience solitude.

But Yosemite Village is a lot like a city today. Unless you get more than a day's hike away from the valley floor, there's no hope of finding solitude or serenity. The Merced, with all its plastic rafts and floaties, looks more like a waterpark than a river. And the campgrounds have more RVs than tents, jammed so close together you can't breathe.

When a guy in a wingsuit is whipping through the valley at 100mph, whooping and hollering, it really is incongruous with the park's mission. As is drone flying, mountain biking, snowmobiling, graffiti-art, and lots of other things that disturb nature.

What would John Muir have thought about BASE jumping?

My feeling is that the restriction should be lifted, probably because it's doing more harm than good, but I think both sides of the argument are convincing, and it's unfair to point the finger at the NPS without trying to honestly understand their motivations. There are a lot of news headlines that read something like, "Rules to Blame in Yosemite Accident", and then leave out the relevant counterpoints.

Re: Lost Brother in Yosemite

#13
post #7
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> BASE jumping is inherently dangerous. Part of the reason it's so dangerous is because it's illegal. I used to assume people flew at night because it was a beautiful time to fly; I had no idea the legal status had such an influence on when they chose to jump. One of the inconsistencies that's not mentioned in the article is the way the park service harasses these climbers/ jumpers, but then calls on those same elite…

> Part of the reason it's so dangerous is because it's illegal Part of the reason it's illegal is because it's so dangerous. The argument goes that park services have limited resources for search and rescue. Engaging in such an inherently dangerous activity inevitably causes a lot of incidents draining those resources. I like BASE and fully support those who choose to participate. But maybe banning BASE in the parks…

BASE is legal through most of Norway. Those particular sites are closed not because of "numerous deaths", but because the wall has much unstable rock and rescues and body retrievals are too dangerous. There are thousands of legal jumps made every year at (for example) Gridset, very close to Trollveggen.

Re: Lost Brother in Yosemite

#14

I think part of the reason base jumping is banned in Yosemite has to do with the spectacle of it. The National Park system was founded with a mission to preserve the serenity of our land, and to give its visitors an opportunity to experience solitude. But Yosemite Village is a lot like a city today. Unless you get more than a day's hike away from the valley floor, there's no hope of finding solitude or serenity. The…

As the article points out, there are many illegal jumps made there and people don't even notice. The very scale of the cliffs means that you probably wouldn't notice unless the open parachute passed through your field of vision.

Re: Lost Brother in Yosemite

#15

Twin Falls, ID is right on the edge of the Snake River Canyon, with the Perrine Bridge connecting it to all things north of the town's location. We frequently have bridge jumpers, as it is allowed. Last month a 73 year old guy died when his second parachute didn't deploy correctly. He needed the second parachute BECAUSE HE LIT THE FIRST ON FIRE! http://magicvalley.com/news/local/video-shows-base-jumper-on... I don't…

For those looking for here is the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LzIWtE7a6k the article linked above linked to a removed copy it appears.

Re: Lost Brother in Yosemite

#16
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Part of the reason it's so dangerous is because it's illegal Part of the reason it's illegal is because it's so dangerous. The argument goes that park services have limited resources for search and rescue. Engaging in such an inherently dangerous activity inevitably causes a lot of incidents draining those resources. I like BASE and fully support those who choose to participate. But maybe banning BASE in the parks…

BASE is legal through most of Norway. Those particular sites are closed not because of "numerous deaths", but because the wall has much unstable rock and rescues and body retrievals are too dangerous. There are thousands of legal jumps made every year at (for example) Gridset, very close to Trollveggen.

> The use of parachute equipment not adapted for cliff jumping, the need for jumpers to find exit points by trial and error and difficulties associated with retrieving injured jumpers led to a relatively high number of fatalities. This resulted in Norwegian authorities making BASE jumping from the Troll Wall illegal on July 25, 1986.

From the Wikipedia article. It's not like BASE is illegal overall here in the US either, we still have Bridge Day and such.

You hit the crux of the argument though, some parks don't want jumpers because they represent an inordinate drain on their resources and risk to their personnel.

Re: Lost Brother in Yosemite

#17

I think part of the reason base jumping is banned in Yosemite has to do with the spectacle of it. The National Park system was founded with a mission to preserve the serenity of our land, and to give its visitors an opportunity to experience solitude. But Yosemite Village is a lot like a city today. Unless you get more than a day's hike away from the valley floor, there's no hope of finding solitude or serenity. The…

As the article points out, there are many illegal jumps made there and people don't even notice. The very scale of the cliffs means that you probably wouldn't notice unless the open parachute passed through your field of vision.

And you don't think making it legal would drastically increase the number of jumpers?

Re: Lost Brother in Yosemite

#19
post #10

Although the stated reason for National parks to restrict it isn't safety, it is a common complaint amongst objectors anywhere. BASE jumping is inherently dangerous. That is no reason to ban it. The highest goal cannot be to make the World a perfectly safe Disney park.

National Parks are preserves; they are not playgrounds. You cannot play loud music. You cannot drive off road. You cannot parachute. You cannot hang-glide. You cannot camp anywhere you like. There are many strongly enforced rules to maximize preservation and minimize disturbance. National Recreation Areas are playgrounds. National Forests are mildly limited playgrounds. National Wildlife Refuges are strongly regulate…

Sure, but there is some hypocrisy going on. They were created "to conserve the scenery and the natural and historic objects and wildlife therein, and to provide for the enjoyment of the same in such manner and by such means as will leave them unimpaired for the enjoyment of future generations."

I think the jumpers are not impairing them for future generations, but some others are.

More than 60 people have died on Half Dome and very few of them are BASE jumpers. The cable path up there doesn't seem to "maximise preservation".

http://www.yosemitehikes.com/yosemite-valley/half-dome/half-...

Re: Lost Brother in Yosemite

#20

Twin Falls, ID is right on the edge of the Snake River Canyon, with the Perrine Bridge connecting it to all things north of the town's location. We frequently have bridge jumpers, as it is allowed. Last month a 73 year old guy died when his second parachute didn't deploy correctly. He needed the second parachute BECAUSE HE LIT THE FIRST ON FIRE! http://magicvalley.com/news/local/video-shows-base-jumper-on... I don't…

I just want to point out something that might be relevant, namely that as a combat vet, I learned that adrenaline is a drug like no other, and it's also extremely addictive. A key point that many adventure seekers fail to take into account, and I think it can sometimes adversely affect their analysis of situations at the moment of truth. Always be prepared to call something like this off, up to the very last moment,…

I really hope more studies are done about how adrenaline addiction adversely affects behavior of people, particularly in jobs where adrenaline inducing events are common, i.e. police, sports/athletes.
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