19 days to build a 57-storey tower • Hacker News Board

Re: 19 days to build a 57-storey tower

#101

Post by jarek » Thu, Jun 11, 2015, 7:14 PM UTC

brudgers wrote: post #41

pharke wrote: post #39

The description of these buildings reminds me of the 'lifeboat city' eco-doom-meme that was floating around for a while seemingly inspired by Lovelock's idea of 'lifeboat islands' or geographic areas that will weather the coming catastrophe well enough to continue supporting a sustainable society. While I don't agree with really any of the above doomsaying or wild speculation I am somewhat fond of the idea of packing…

Pruit-Igoe is the poster child for the theory of apartment towers in the park meets reality. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pruitt%E2%80%93Igoe

American reality, so with a healthy dose of classism, racism, and general political failure.

"Residents cite a lack of maintenance almost from the very beginning, including the regular breakdown of elevators, as being a primary cause of the deterioration of the project. Local authorities cited a lack of funding to pay for the workforce necessary for proper upkeep of the buildings. ... The project's parking and recreation facilities were inadequate; playgrounds were added only after tenants petitioned for their installation. ... Housing projects of similar architectural design were successful in New York, but St. Louis's fragmented political culture and declining urban core contributed to the project's failure."

Re: 19 days to build a 57-storey tower

#102

Post by nosuchthing » Thu, Jun 11, 2015, 7:46 PM UTC

nate_meurer wrote: post #90

gambiting wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dad used to work on 1 day houses. Essentially the whole house would arrive from the factory and just had to be assembled. In the morning, there was nothing, in the evening, you had a complete house, with windows and doors which could be locked. Still, the foundations took a month to settle properly before the construction could start,but it didn't change the fact that the whole house was actually assembled in a da…

A hundred years ago in the U.S. you could order a house from the Sears Modern Home catalog. They had dozens of different models. A kit containing everything you needed to build the house was delivered to the site on trucks, and you could assemble it yourself. The kit came with comprehensive instructions, and assembly points were marked with numbers and arrows. How far we have fallen.

Ah but we've come so far though!

[1] http://www.ecocapsule.sk/

[2] http://www.fastcoexist.com/3021196/house-in-a-box-this-tiny-...

[3] http://www.smallhousestyle.com/small-house-builders-prefab-k...

[4] http://tinygreencabins.com/sweet-life-tiny-houses/

Re: 19 days to build a 57-storey tower

#103

Post by maerF0x0 » Thu, Jun 11, 2015, 8:22 PM UTC

zimpenfish wrote: post #11

19 days to -assemble- a 57 storey tower. Four and a half months constructing the modules for assembly. > Broad Sustainable Building spent four and a half months fabricating the building’s 2,736 modules before construction began. The first 20 floors were completed last year, and the remaining 37 were built from 31 January to 17 February this year, Xiao said. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/30/chinese-constru…

The value here is that the building can be preconstructed, before knocking down the one it's replacing. This way the residents of the current building only have to find a replacement home for 19 days (barring red tape).

Re: 19 days to build a 57-storey tower

#104

Post by vidarh » Thu, Jun 11, 2015, 8:28 PM UTC

maerF0x0 wrote: post #103

zimpenfish wrote: post #11

19 days to -assemble- a 57 storey tower. Four and a half months constructing the modules for assembly. > Broad Sustainable Building spent four and a half months fabricating the building’s 2,736 modules before construction began. The first 20 floors were completed last year, and the remaining 37 were built from 31 January to 17 February this year, Xiao said. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/30/chinese-constru…

The value here is that the building can be preconstructed, before knocking down the one it's replacing. This way the residents of the current building only have to find a replacement home for 19 days (barring red tape).

The 19 days is to erect the structure, not to make it habitable. Your overall point still makes sense, but it's not like people can move into these buildings as soon as the structure is up.

Re: 19 days to build a 57-storey tower

#105

Post by vidarh » Thu, Jun 11, 2015, 8:34 PM UTC

SCAQTony wrote: post #63

SanFranManDan wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Im not saying that this particular tower is unsafe, but in the US we have loads of regulation. Depending on your political view, this can mean either the US is helping to protect citizens or it means that it gets in the way of business/progress. Having some regulation in place helps prevent things like: http://i.imgur.com/McgeoNa.jpg But that doesn't mean that US isn't over regulated.

WOW! I just looked this up using Tin.eye and the imgur link to locate this fiasco and how it happened. This event happened in 2009 in Shanghai, China. The location was Block-7 at Lotus Riverside in the Minhang District. The building did not fall due an earthquake but rather due to very poor foundation planning. The coup de grace or death blow came when an underground parking garage was being dug below the building. (…

> Each floor would have to be inspected and certified as safe and I don't believe that could be done in under a year.

"Nobody" spends that long on modern highrises - the processes are generally well understood and most of the structures are "cookie cutter" designs with solid margins. The ones going up in London now typically takes 1-3 days per floor for the structure.

Re: 19 days to build a 57-storey tower

#106

Post by anthony_romeo » Thu, Jun 11, 2015, 8:37 PM UTC

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #92

anthony_romeo wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I visited China for the first time last year. I went to Guangzhou with a friend of mine. My friend from there left to study in the US in 2010, and he could barely recognize his own city with all the new districts and buildings. I ultimately came to the conclusion that the growth in China is real, unlike how it's routinely described in the news in the US. Though I did meet an Irish business owner (who lived there for…

>social programs created with the 1930's and 1960's in mind Its these social programs that help cushion the fall during a recession. Countries without them often are the receiving end of a peasant revolution or coup when the economy goes sour. I'd say this is very much a feature, not a bug. Meanwhile, China's affluence doesn't percolate to the rural area and a serious economic downturn would hurt the most vulnerable,…

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that I am against social programs. On the contrary, I'm a supporter of universal health care in the US. This is the sort of thing I was alluding to when I said "created with the 1930's and 1960's in mind." Anyway, these systems, like our other infrastructure, have not been properly maintained (I quickly wrote an article about one example on my blog a while back (which I haven't updated in forever), should be the first article: http://boldboldness.com/) and should be modernized in some manner.

I'm not under the illusion that the Chinese health care system is better than in the US, and I'm aware that my observations were limited to the city. I was actually able to visit a local hospital in Guangzhou while I was there (interestingly, it was the hospital where the first SARS patient was treated), and I was surprised at how old and chaotic it was compared to the extravagance built in the remainder of the city. Very dark, loud, full of people, and run like a bad DMV in the US. Hopefully when China slows down they'll attempt to focus more on the health of their citizens.

Re: 19 days to build a 57-storey tower

#107

Post by toomuchtodo » Thu, Jun 11, 2015, 9:32 PM UTC

zhte415 wrote: post #28

donkeyd wrote: post #10

> “The biggest problem we face in the world right now isn't terrorism or world war. It's climate change,” he says. I really like seeing this quote from a Chinese business man.

There's more, but a small personal anecdote: I have a boss with similar, if somewhat more relaxed, thinking. "Why stay in the Shangri-La when a [200 Yuan per night] Motel 168 or HomeInn is perfectly clean, safe and more convenient." or "Have a laptop and a standing desk if you like, it saves more than having you unhappy or leave." or "50 Yuan per day travel bonus, enjoy the local food." It is not penny pinching (the…

> When it encroaches on personal things such as the size of a family (below, from the article's Zhang Yue) I do not like it

Not having a child is the most environmentally responsible act one can do. For each child you don't have, you offset tens of thousands of tons of CO2 emissions, millions of gallons of water used, tons of trash produced, etc.

I've been kicking around starting a non-profit that pays people not to have children, with the funding coming from carbon credits.

"By first year itself an American toddler would have generated more Carbon dioxide emission than an average person in Tanzania will generate in a life time."

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/xpeditions/lessons/14/g68/...

http://www.greencontributor.com/index.php/human-foot-print.h...

Re: 19 days to build a 57-storey tower

#108

Post by minthd » Fri, Jun 12, 2015, 12:07 AM UTC

brudgers wrote: post #81

minthd wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't these kinds of buildings change the dynamic in real-estate ? For example , in israel, where the land is usually bought from the state, sometimes groups of private people gather together to build an apartment complex and save a bit of money.But that's a long(and maybe risky) project, so people rarely do so. But let's say it was a short process - a group gathers, gives the funds , and in month they enter their ap…

Real-estate markets are markets. They seek equilibrium. When a building is delivered, supply increases, demand goes down and a new equilibrium is established. Groups of people who would build apartments have the option of moving in to existing apartments without the impedance of land entitlement, large project financing, or construction timelines. Speed to market presents less risk to developers except when everyone…

How can it be that there's a risk of over-supply if times gets short and feedback loops between buyers/contractors/sellers become much faster ?

Re: 19 days to build a 57-storey tower

#109

Post by known » Fri, Jun 12, 2015, 6:45 AM UTC

puranjay wrote: post #44

CrLf wrote: post #9

For some reason I don't feel compelled to spend time in such a building...

I live in India and had a maid who was incredibly quick to clean the house. She would come in, do her thing and be out in 15 minutes. For other maids, the same cleaning up would take at least an hour. I was convinced she wasn't doing a good job. All past experience with other maids had shown me that it takes at least one hour to clean the house. One day, I decided to follow up after she'd done her cleaning. I went ov…

What is her Caste?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_politics_in_India

Re: 19 days to build a 57-storey tower

#110

Post by rawTruthHurts » Fri, Jun 12, 2015, 8:57 AM UTC

sp332 wrote: post #53

melling wrote: post #46

The new World Trade Center took 8 years and is the most expensive building in the world: http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2013/may/11/one-world... Everything done is the U.S. takes more time and costs a lot more money. Consider, for example, that China has constructed 10,000 miles of high-speed rail in about a decade. We still have 0.0 miles. Yeah, yeah, we don't need 10k but we need more than 0. Airports, subw…

The new WTC is one of the most bomb-proof buildings in the world. It is also one of the tallest (even if you don't count the spire). Everything in the US takes more time and costs more money when we're doing it better than everyone else.

As far as I know nobody else is interested in building their own WTC. And when it comes to tall buildings, well, let's say they're as ok as everyone's else.