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Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

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Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#111

Post by remarkEon »

HillRat wrote: post #58
remarkEon wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another Army vet here and totally agree. I remember looking at pictures of Ferguson and seeing how they were setting up their kit and thinking "what are you guys doing? getting ready for an ambush?" They look so absurd...the one picture of the guy on top of the MRAP with a sniper rifle was equally absurd. Beyond how they look, it's like they're at times forgetting these are citizens and not enemy combatants . Edit1:…

I also like the subdued flag patch and ACUPAT trousers. Really sells the hipster "Ramadi 2006" vintage look.

Didn't even notice but when I looked again at the subdued flag patch I noticed he's got a mini eotech on the front rail of that gun. My platoon sergeant would have lost his mind.

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#112

Post by shit_parade2 »

hga wrote: post #107
shit_parade2 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By every measure the US has the most imprisonment. America is the première police state, how else would you measure it?

That is perhaps valid, though a counter argument is that in many police states such people are executed instead of imprisoned. Typically it means the police are an instrument of whomever is controlling the state to keep themselves in power, e.g. per Wikipedia " Police state is a term denoting government that exercises power arbitrarily through the police. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_state ). I also like to…

Cops kill 3 people a day, sounds like execution to me. Funny how dead men can't defend themselves or contradict the narrative police give -- which is often wrong when caught on tape.

I don't think you fully grok how many more people the US imprisons, a country would have to execute tens of thousands of people per year for decades to match the amount.

Police are thugs, far worse than any gang.

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#113

Post by bdcravens »

stonogo wrote: post #85
bdcravens wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First off, statistics: For your analogy to be fair, you'd need to compare mortality among police in Chicago, not nationwide police mortality, since an officer, like a citizen, is under great threat in Chicago than rural Kansas. Even so, you can compare the job to anything, and find statistics that sound more impressive. More children die via drowning in swimming pools than by gunshot wounds, but that doesn't mean tha…

Nobody is saying the job is completely free of danger. We're saying they don't need MRAPs and assault rifles. You don't get to exclude the middle ground here. And fuck your passing dig at accusing me of armchair activism; I've served in actual wars, as infantry, where I was less well-equipped than some of these suburban police departments. I am fully aware that danger exists, and what it looks like. It is being overs…

I was originally address joesmo's comment: "being a police officer is not even a very dangerous job"

And I apologize if my words suggested a dig at you - I was still addressing the idea that it's a safe pedestrian job filled with intentional racists. I really was speaking to the general HN'er, rather than you specifically. I think you'll agree that there is a lot of armchair activists who have never seen a battle field, or a bullet wound, and whose opinions are shaped more by Twitter and emojis than reality.

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#114

Post by sjs382 »

Patrick_Devine wrote: post #55
ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #7

Cops need to stop dressing like they are mercs in Iraq circa 2004. Tactical vests, cargo pants with a shitload of shit hanging off them-the average (non SWAT) cop now looks like they are ready to go off on a patrol in a hostile village. I'm an Army vet, and cops dressing like that does intimidate me a little bit-I can't imagine that they present the image of a friendly ally to the average person. Men should also grow…

I'd go further and say they need to do the same thing with their vehicles, like in Europe. Police officers and their cars are for public safety, and should be highly visible. Here's a typical Swedish police car: http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/autopia/images/2008/12/15/... I think the intention in the US is that cop cars have to be less visible so that they can catch people committing "crimes" in order to fill quot…

Lose the neon yellow, and you aren't far off from what an american police car looks like.

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#115

Post by remarkEon »

angersock wrote: post #12
ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #7

Cops need to stop dressing like they are mercs in Iraq circa 2004. Tactical vests, cargo pants with a shitload of shit hanging off them-the average (non SWAT) cop now looks like they are ready to go off on a patrol in a hostile village. I'm an Army vet, and cops dressing like that does intimidate me a little bit-I can't imagine that they present the image of a friendly ally to the average person. Men should also grow…

Generally agree, but the short-cut hair makes a great deal of sense if you don't want a suspect pulling on your scalp.

I see where you're going with that premise, but there's a particular character in The Wire that was one of David Simon's not-so-subtle devices to critique militarization of the police. A three-finger fade is wholly unnecessary.

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#116

Post by ancap »

knodi123 wrote: post #19
DamnYuppie wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The incident in Texas in only shocking when one considers the slanted reporting that the media is doing. Those kids were trespassing, were violent with minors, and flatly refused to listen to police officers. The reporting of this is nothing more then a propaganda piece. We have large populations of minorities who feel entitled to behave badly without any consequence because the color of their skin.

I was right there with you until your last sentence veered off into racist territory.

Racism is stating a superiority of one race over another. The last sentence was controversial, at worst an overgeneralization, but not racist.

Can we please stop this politically correct nonsense of calling any controversial comment involving race racist?

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#117

Post by remarkEon »

maxxxxx wrote: post #73
ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #7

Cops need to stop dressing like they are mercs in Iraq circa 2004. Tactical vests, cargo pants with a shitload of shit hanging off them-the average (non SWAT) cop now looks like they are ready to go off on a patrol in a hostile village. I'm an Army vet, and cops dressing like that does intimidate me a little bit-I can't imagine that they present the image of a friendly ally to the average person. Men should also grow…

With all that glorification of military and war since 2001 it's no wonder cops want to jump on the bandwagon.

Well I'd suggest that this actually started in 1971, when Richard Nixon started the Drug Wars. Since then the threshold for use of deadly force has been so lowered (hey every criminal could be a violent drug dealer connected to a violent drug network) because every civilian is a potential adversary.

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#118

Post by hga »

shit_parade2 wrote: post #112
hga wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is perhaps valid, though a counter argument is that in many police states such people are executed instead of imprisoned. Typically it means the police are an instrument of whomever is controlling the state to keep themselves in power, e.g. per Wikipedia " Police state is a term denoting government that exercises power arbitrarily through the police. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_state ). I also like to…

Cops kill 3 people a day, sounds like execution to me. Funny how dead men can't defend themselves or contradict the narrative police give -- which is often wrong when caught on tape. I don't think you fully grok how many more people the US imprisons, a country would have to execute tens of thousands of people per year for decades to match the amount. Police are thugs, far worse than any gang.

And more often right, at least in the tapes I and people I trust have analyzed. In theory (yes, I know, you can stop laughing), per https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_v._Garner police can only use lethal force in self-defense and in defense of others, no shooting a non-violent fleeing criminal, they have no more rights in that area than us armed civilians.

I wonder if you grok the concept of per-capita statistics, or comparing like demographics, and I'll note that one of the hallmarks of modern police states is slaughtering a lot more people than they publicly acknowledge.

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#119

Post by darkarmani »

stonogo wrote: post #41
bdcravens wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The irony is, of course, that being a police officer is not even a very dangerous job. http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/10/us/mississippi-police-officers... Routine traffic stop. Pretty sure I've never heard of a developer being murdered during a pull request. > That leads me to conclude they're just a bunch of cowards with an inferiority complex out to hurt people to make themselves feel better. I'm sure cops exist who…

Your single example means nothing. There are (at conservative estimate) around 750,000 law officers w/ arrest powers in the USA. 114 were killed in 2014. This is a 0.016% mortality rate -- and this number includes accidental deaths while on duty. This is about the same percentage as murders only in Chicago -- meaning the population of Chicago is, on average, in more danger just existing than any given police officer…

> This is a 0.016% mortality rate -- and this number includes accidental deaths while on duty.

This is probably lower than the accident rate of traveling salesmen.

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#120

Post by nine_k »

bdavisx wrote: post #75
nine_k wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a complete civilian, I'd say that police in all their gear do not look intimidating to me. Mostly it's the posture, the facial expression, the tone of voice that makes someone look friendly (or not). I look at them as I look at construction workers or garbage truckers: this is what they have to wear to do their job, not best-looking, not most comfortable. I can sympathize. How is all this gear useful is another qu…

They don't have to wear all that gear to do their job.

The on-street policemen have to, because their higher-ups order them to.

Whether these orders make sense is the question.

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