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Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

harvardlawreview.org

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Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#51

Post by wl »

ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #7

Cops need to stop dressing like they are mercs in Iraq circa 2004. Tactical vests, cargo pants with a shitload of shit hanging off them-the average (non SWAT) cop now looks like they are ready to go off on a patrol in a hostile village. I'm an Army vet, and cops dressing like that does intimidate me a little bit-I can't imagine that they present the image of a friendly ally to the average person. Men should also grow…

Vests are rather practical. The classic bat belt tends to give officers back problems.

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#52

Post by vectorpush »

DamnYuppie wrote: post #5
boards2x wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> But equally the non-violent public do not deserve to face potential threats to their life and violent coercion in routine interactions with law enforcers. It is really not "the public" at large, at least not in many cases. The police seems to be profiling and directing excessive force towards non-Caucasians, as it was so obvious in the shocking incident in Texas. This case, which sort of crystallized the problem,…

The incident in Texas in only shocking when one considers the slanted reporting that the media is doing. Those kids were trespassing, were violent with minors, and flatly refused to listen to police officers. The reporting of this is nothing more then a propaganda piece. We have large populations of minorities who feel entitled to behave badly without any consequence because the color of their skin.

From what I've read, most of the teens were invited by another teen who lived in the community (including the one who was slammed to the ground for mouthing off to the cop). Apparently, some additional teens who were not invited showed up which is what prompted someone to call the police but when this particular officer arrived on scene he didn't attempt to distinguish between teens who were invited and teens who were not and instead just started subduing every black kid in sight.

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#53

Post by sgnelson »

This is yet one more of the hidden costs of the Afghan and Iraq wars.

You have a large population of soldiers, many who come back home after their tours of duty, where they were in effect an occupying force. And then they get a job in law enforcement. They are used too a certain way of doing things in Iraq and Afghanistan, and they bring that culture home with them. Even for those who didn't serve, as the article notes, this "warrior culture" has bled into police forces everywhere.

In the military, they say "train as you fight." Well guess what they've been training to do? Hint: it's not the warm and cuddly community policing. When you're used to "fight or fight," in the military, and then you're put back in the civilian world, these issues come to the fore.

Not to be mean or unfair, but some of these soldiers who come back have PTSD and other mental issues (not their fault), but I've wondered how much of that also plays a role in police violence and the way police officers handle themselves in stressful situations.

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#54

Post by happyscrappy »

NoMoreNicksLeft wrote: post #47
happyscrappy wrote: post #35

All cops should be wearing cameras, but I don't think it will work out very well for the SJWs when all the interactions are clearly documented. Imagine if there was video of Michael Brown going for the officers gun, would they still riot?

> Imagine if there was video of Michael Brown going for the officers gun, would they still riot? That's what causes the problem. Police apologists imagine circumstances that justify their abuse, and are absolutely certain that's what actually happened. If there was a video, I wouldn't imagine. I'd watch and see what happened.

>If there was a video, I wouldn't imagine. I'd watch and see what happened.

Well you saw the video of him robbing the store and assaulting the clerk moments earlier but that doesn't bother you?

Edit since I can't reply:

At least you didn't say "Police murder innocent black child" so that is a start. His actions moments before make the cops story more likely to be true.

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#55

Post by Patrick_Devine »

ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #7

Cops need to stop dressing like they are mercs in Iraq circa 2004. Tactical vests, cargo pants with a shitload of shit hanging off them-the average (non SWAT) cop now looks like they are ready to go off on a patrol in a hostile village. I'm an Army vet, and cops dressing like that does intimidate me a little bit-I can't imagine that they present the image of a friendly ally to the average person. Men should also grow…

I'd go further and say they need to do the same thing with their vehicles, like in Europe. Police officers and their cars are for public safety, and should be highly visible.

Here's a typical Swedish police car: http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/autopia/images/2008/12/15/...

I think the intention in the US is that cop cars have to be less visible so that they can catch people committing "crimes" in order to fill quotas. The policy should be shifted to prevent or deter people from acting badly, and you can do that be just being more visible.

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#56

Post by Someone1234 »

rayiner wrote: post #46
Someone1234 wrote: post #30

US police services need to move to "policing by consent" (also often called "community policing"). The concept is that a police service is ineffective if they do not have the broad support of the local community, and the police service should adapt to service the community they have (not the community they'd want to have). If a bunch of gangbangers "hate" cops then that's fine. But when the good law abiding citizens…

I don't know if we'll ever achieve that here in the U.S. Most of these issues arise in heavily black and Hispanic neighborhoods with high crime. These folks have very little faith in the police and for good reason. The understanding that police are there to protect rich white people from poor black and Hispanic people has gotten less overt and less official since the 1960's, but it's still there to a degree, especial…

> how do you do community policing in the low-income black neighborhoods of Baltimore? How do you rebuild trust?

Time.

Unfortunately trust is earned, and once it is lost it takes twice as long to win back. Baltimore might have issues between the police and community for tens of years to come, but if they start working closely with the community, and actually making changes based on community feedback you may see it turn around slowly.

It may also help to recruit from within the community, more black officers, and more locals in general. That will help sew the bonds of trust between the police and the community (rather than it feeling like us Vs. them).

In general the police need a much better attitude from the top upon down.

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#57

Post by vollmond »

sgnelson wrote: post #53

This is yet one more of the hidden costs of the Afghan and Iraq wars. You have a large population of soldiers, many who come back home after their tours of duty, where they were in effect an occupying force. And then they get a job in law enforcement. They are used too a certain way of doing things in Iraq and Afghanistan, and they bring that culture home with them. Even for those who didn't serve, as the article not…

The other part is the excessive hero worship, also driven by the War on Terror. The "support the troops" conversation stopper has extended to law enforcement and any other public-facing service job, to the point where it's impossible to have a civil debate about the military, police, teachers, or anyone, without offending someone just for bringing up the topic.

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#58

Post by HillRat »

remarkEon wrote: post #17
ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #7

Cops need to stop dressing like they are mercs in Iraq circa 2004. Tactical vests, cargo pants with a shitload of shit hanging off them-the average (non SWAT) cop now looks like they are ready to go off on a patrol in a hostile village. I'm an Army vet, and cops dressing like that does intimidate me a little bit-I can't imagine that they present the image of a friendly ally to the average person. Men should also grow…

Another Army vet here and totally agree. I remember looking at pictures of Ferguson and seeing how they were setting up their kit and thinking "what are you guys doing? getting ready for an ambush?" They look so absurd...the one picture of the guy on top of the MRAP with a sniper rifle was equally absurd. Beyond how they look, it's like they're at times forgetting these are citizens and not enemy combatants . Edit1:…

I also like the subdued flag patch and ACUPAT trousers. Really sells the hipster "Ramadi 2006" vintage look.

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#59

Post by Thriptic »

happyscrappy wrote: post #35

All cops should be wearing cameras, but I don't think it will work out very well for the SJWs when all the interactions are clearly documented. Imagine if there was video of Michael Brown going for the officers gun, would they still riot?

> Imagine if there was video of Michael Brown going for the officers gun, would they still riot?

You say this as if people are looking for an excuse to riot. No one wants a riot, it's bad for the participants, the police, the community, and the local economy. The only winners are looters.

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#60

Post by hga »

sgnelson wrote: post #53

This is yet one more of the hidden costs of the Afghan and Iraq wars. You have a large population of soldiers, many who come back home after their tours of duty, where they were in effect an occupying force. And then they get a job in law enforcement. They are used too a certain way of doing things in Iraq and Afghanistan, and they bring that culture home with them. Even for those who didn't serve, as the article not…

Sorry, but this trend seems to have started with changes in the War on Drugs in the '70s, and the popularization of SWAT teams. It was certainly very strong before 9/11.
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