Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

harvardlawreview.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 157 posts

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#21

Post by bdcravens »

rmxt wrote: post #11
DamnYuppie wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The incident in Texas in only shocking when one considers the slanted reporting that the media is doing. Those kids were trespassing, were violent with minors, and flatly refused to listen to police officers. The reporting of this is nothing more then a propaganda piece. We have large populations of minorities who feel entitled to behave badly without any consequence because the color of their skin.

How does one get from "a few kids being rowdy and not listening to police officers" to "x group of people has entitlement issues"? Seems like quite a disingenuous stretch.

edit: to be clear, I'm talking about the video specifically, not the parent comment's general perspective.

Watching the video, while has was telling the girl to get on her face, several teens were encroaching and yelling. The one he chased with gun out came up behind him and made a motion that looked like he was feinting pulling out a gun. I think the events in Ferguson and otherwise and causing some to become a bit more cavalier, as if they've "earned" the right to act that way during a police action due to what has happened elsewhere.

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#23

Post by hga »

spiritplumber wrote: post #15
jmnicolas wrote: post #2

Judging from the outside, US law enforcement has a "no accountability" problem, not a warrior one.

That's the big issue. The great advance of cameras being cheap and ubiquitous has effectively been countermoved by "Yeah, we saw the video, we investigated ourselves and found nothing wrong" or district attorneys that either decline to prosecute police abuse or treat grand juries in police-abuse cases completely differently than they would in any other case.

That's just a short term fix; we know what's really happening (although it's not always clear in videos, especially if conveniently edited like the Rodney King one), and the longer this goes on without resolution the nastier it gets for everyone.

Which, I suppose, can be a reinforcing cycle; in another sub-thread Army vet remarkEon said "it's like they're at times forgetting these are citizens and not enemy combatants." As the police continue to lose support from the populace, including the traditionally supportive right, more and more of us become enemy combatants in a sense even if the vast majority of us don't take action. And with the concealed carry sweep of most of the nation, we don't actually need the police so much.

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#24

Post by bdcravens »

joesmo wrote: post #9

It doesn't matter what attitudes change, the community relationship between police and citizens will not be repaired till at least my generation is dead (mid 30s) but more likely till at least three current generation of young people is dead. And that only if dramatic changes happen now. Otherwise things will continue to degrade and the police will continue to arrest and kill innocent people for committing crimes tha…

> The irony is, of course, that being a police officer is not even a very dangerous job.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/05/10/us/mississippi-police-officers...

Routine traffic stop. Pretty sure I've never heard of a developer being murdered during a pull request.

> That leads me to conclude they're just a bunch of cowards with an inferiority complex out to hurt people to make themselves feel better. I'm sure cops exist who aren't like this but that doesn't disprove the fact that the majority are. Then you add their racism to the mix... Cowards will be cowards.

Congratulations, I think this is the most bigoted and stereotyping post I have ever read on Hacker News. Ever.

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#25

Post by hga »

joesmo wrote: post #9

It doesn't matter what attitudes change, the community relationship between police and citizens will not be repaired till at least my generation is dead (mid 30s) but more likely till at least three current generation of young people is dead. And that only if dramatic changes happen now. Otherwise things will continue to degrade and the police will continue to arrest and kill innocent people for committing crimes tha…

Given how they slaughter dogs when given a chance, sometimes even when the dogs are running away, your thesis looks awfully good.

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#26

Post by nine_k »

ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #7

Cops need to stop dressing like they are mercs in Iraq circa 2004. Tactical vests, cargo pants with a shitload of shit hanging off them-the average (non SWAT) cop now looks like they are ready to go off on a patrol in a hostile village. I'm an Army vet, and cops dressing like that does intimidate me a little bit-I can't imagine that they present the image of a friendly ally to the average person. Men should also grow…

As a complete civilian, I'd say that police in all their gear do not look intimidating to me. Mostly it's the posture, the facial expression, the tone of voice that makes someone look friendly (or not). I look at them as I look at construction workers or garbage truckers: this is what they have to wear to do their job, not best-looking, not most comfortable. I can sympathize.

How is all this gear useful is another question.

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#27

Post by 3pt14159 »

angersock wrote: post #12
ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #7

Cops need to stop dressing like they are mercs in Iraq circa 2004. Tactical vests, cargo pants with a shitload of shit hanging off them-the average (non SWAT) cop now looks like they are ready to go off on a patrol in a hostile village. I'm an Army vet, and cops dressing like that does intimidate me a little bit-I can't imagine that they present the image of a friendly ally to the average person. Men should also grow…

Generally agree, but the short-cut hair makes a great deal of sense if you don't want a suspect pulling on your scalp.

De-escalation is more effective than the slight tactical advantage.

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#28

Post by dmfdmf »

remarkEon wrote: post #17
ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #7

Cops need to stop dressing like they are mercs in Iraq circa 2004. Tactical vests, cargo pants with a shitload of shit hanging off them-the average (non SWAT) cop now looks like they are ready to go off on a patrol in a hostile village. I'm an Army vet, and cops dressing like that does intimidate me a little bit-I can't imagine that they present the image of a friendly ally to the average person. Men should also grow…

Another Army vet here and totally agree. I remember looking at pictures of Ferguson and seeing how they were setting up their kit and thinking "what are you guys doing? getting ready for an ambush?" They look so absurd...the one picture of the guy on top of the MRAP with a sniper rifle was equally absurd. Beyond how they look, it's like they're at times forgetting these are citizens and not enemy combatants . Edit1:…

> Beyond how they look, it's like they're at times forgetting these are citizens and not enemy combatants.

This can't be stressed enough. What needs to be stopped is the false distinction of civilian vs non-civilian in police work and policy. That is strictly a military distinction in combat and does not apply to civilized enforcement of the law during normal circumstances. Cops are not above the law and are just civilians empowered to enforce the laws, nothing more.

Re: Law Enforcement’s “Warrior” Problem

#30

Post by Someone1234 »

US police services need to move to "policing by consent" (also often called "community policing"). The concept is that a police service is ineffective if they do not have the broad support of the local community, and the police service should adapt to service the community they have (not the community they'd want to have).

If a bunch of gangbangers "hate" cops then that's fine. But when the good law abiding citizens within a community lose faith in the police service, then that police service becomes ineffective since the community won't help with the police's core mission. Or to phase it another way, the police are an arm of the community, they aren't a law upon themselves (in the figurative sense).

A lot of other countries do this, and it works well.

It is a completely different mindset. All law abiding citizens are now allies in this "war" rather than potential law breakers. You actually have police respond to legitimate community concerns rather than trivial things only the police care about (e.g. DUIs might be a big community concern as opposed to prostitution stings).

Honestly the first thing the US absolutely needs is citizen oversight of police (and police complaints). As long as police police themselves, nothing constructive will happen.

Post reply on HN