How is this not tax-avoidance? (inadvertent and well-meant, I'm sure)
They're not paying VAT on any of these transactions. I would have thought HMRC would come knocking if this gets any real traction.
The Bristol pound is giving sterling a run for its money
31–40 of 61 posts
Re: The Bristol pound is giving sterling a run for its money
#32"The Disney Dollar is giving USD a run for its money"
Re: The Bristol pound is giving sterling a run for its money
#33How is this not tax-avoidance? (inadvertent and well-meant, I'm sure) They're not paying VAT on any of these transactions. I would have thought HMRC would come knocking if this gets any real traction.
The currency does not change the law. E.g. if you pay with EUR or USD you still have to pay the appropriate taxes in the format the govn't expects (in sterling). The alternative currencies are no exception.
Re: The Bristol pound is giving sterling a run for its money
#34Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pretty sure this is completely incorrect. It's sterling just with a slightly different note design including the issuing bank name. It's accepted anywhere sterling is accepted - the only issue I've ever had is that English businesses may not have seen it before and are worried it's fake. Never had any refuse to accept it though.
I've had Scottish bank notes refused by a taxi driver in London, and he had a letter from the Bank of England claiming he didn't have to take it (a fact that Wikipedia backs up). Though what he gains from antagonising customers I'm not sure.
It's just an issue of national pride.
Re: The Bristol pound is giving sterling a run for its money
#35How is this not tax-avoidance? (inadvertent and well-meant, I'm sure) They're not paying VAT on any of these transactions. I would have thought HMRC would come knocking if this gets any real traction.
> They're not paying VAT on any of these transactions.
They're supposed to. Well, more accurately, if a VAT-registered company is receiving payment in Bristol Pounds, they should be charging VAT (and passing it on to HMRC as the Sterling equivalent).
Don't forget that VAT is only charged by companies that are VAT-registered, and you don't have to register for VAT unless your turnover is above £82,000.
Re: The Bristol pound is giving sterling a run for its money
#36Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pretty sure this is completely incorrect. It's sterling just with a slightly different note design including the issuing bank name. It's accepted anywhere sterling is accepted - the only issue I've ever had is that English businesses may not have seen it before and are worried it's fake. Never had any refuse to accept it though.
It's the same with Scottish money, except English people tend to openly despise it and will often refuse it even when they're perfectly aware that it's legal tender. They're historical accidents tbh.
Do you pay into court in Scottish notes a lot?
> Legal tender has a very narrow and technical meaning in the settlement of debts. It means that a debtor cannot successfully be sued for non-payment if he pays into court in legal tender. It does not mean that any ordinary transaction has to take place in legal tender or only within the amount denominated by the legislation.
http://www.royalmint.com/aboutus/policies-and-guidelines/leg...
Re: The Bristol pound is giving sterling a run for its money
#37There is also a local currency in the Chiemsee area (Bavaria, Germany) called the Chiemgauer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chiemgauer
Turnover 2013: 7000000 Chiemgauer (1 Chiemgauer = 1 EUR)
Re: The Bristol pound is giving sterling a run for its money
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
Pretty sure this is completely incorrect. It's sterling just with a slightly different note design including the issuing bank name. It's accepted anywhere sterling is accepted - the only issue I've ever had is that English businesses may not have seen it before and are worried it's fake. Never had any refuse to accept it though.
It's the same with Scottish money, except English people tend to openly despise it and will often refuse it even when they're perfectly aware that it's legal tender. They're historical accidents tbh.
Scottish bank notes aren't legal tender, and smcgivern is correct that legal tender doesn't mean someone has to accept it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banknotes_of_the_pound_sterlin...
Re: The Bristol pound is giving sterling a run for its money
#39How is this not tax-avoidance? (inadvertent and well-meant, I'm sure) They're not paying VAT on any of these transactions. I would have thought HMRC would come knocking if this gets any real traction.
The currency does not change the law. E.g. if you pay with EUR or USD you still have to pay the appropriate taxes in the format the govn't expects (in sterling). The alternative currencies are no exception.
I agree. But if money is going through normal channels and normal currencies, then it's recorded & HMRC can audit it.
If it's going through back-channels, alternative currencies & bitcoins, it's still taxable, but HMRC can't see it so there's a huge temptation to not pay tax.
There's a reason your plumber offers you a discount for cash-in-hand :-) if it doesn't go through his books he's not going to pay tax on it. That happens with GBP already - surely more likely to with Bristol Pounds!
Re: The Bristol pound is giving sterling a run for its money
#40Hayek theorised this in 'The Denationalization of Money'. When government currencies become less stable, less valuable. Private, competing currencies can become a medium of exchange free from that. We're starting to see this as many of the national currencies have been flagging over the years. Zimbabwe is a classic example of this also.
I'd say this is very different. The Bristol Pound is pegged to the Sterling. It's really not about mistrust of the government, but rather an attempt to keep profits local and encourage people to use smaller businesses.
That's very true, but it is a private currency and part of that is individuals and private businesses can agree upon their own set of uses. Such as profits within one city in this case. You're right that it's not currency competition in terms of value, but I guess it is in terms of use