I quit the tech industry • Hacker News Board

Re: I quit the tech industry

#501

Post by bcheung » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 9:51 PM UTC

mark-r wrote: post #347

brightball wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matter of perspective I guess. When I looked at my early mortgage payments and 85% of the payment was interest so after 10 years I would have barely paid down the principle at all. To me, that feels like waste. I invested with steady 12-14% returns for 10 years and then watched it all get wiped out. The interest rate on paying of debt doesn't change. Granted, at current rates it's a lot tougher to make the argument f…

To fix the problem of all your payment going to interest, look at a shorter term. A 15 year mortgage is much less popular than a 30 year, but you start seeing a difference in the outstanding principle right away.

You can always get a 30 and pay extra. Why give up that flexibility. In today's market interest rates are so low the difference between the 15 and 30 rate are negligible. Also, ask yourself why the bank wants you to take the 15? It's because they make more money that way. Nit from you directly but they have more money they can loan out the faster you pay it back. Plus they have leverage with the fractional reserve system.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#502

Post by fideloper » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 9:54 PM UTC

300bps wrote: post #369

fideloper wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly this. General rule of thumb when deciding between eliminating debt or investing is to compare if the debt interest is greater than investment interest (investment rate of return). If (debt.interest > investment.interest ), pay off debt first. Else, invest.

If (debt.interest > investment.interest ), pay off debt first. Else, invest. I disagree with this tremendously. With your strategy, essentially what you are doing is buying stocks on margin. This magnifies your profits if things goes your way and magnifies your losses if things go against you. Think about it this way - Interactive Brokers is an online brokerage with extremely low margin rates which are often half of…

From a google search: "Buying on margin is borrowing money from a broker to purchase stock. You can think of it as a loan from your brokerage. Margin trading allows you to buy more stock than you'd be able to normally."

That's not what I meant, definitely wouldn't borrow to invest so much as decide to invest (if I came into a new chunk of money) money on hand.

I'm not sure where the assumption is that I meant to invest on margin - it feels like I'm missing something.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#503

Post by mark-r » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 9:56 PM UTC

bcheung wrote: post #487

mark-r wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paying off a mortgage is just like any other investment - you need to look at the terms to see if it's worth doing. It's very illiquid, you can't get your cash back without getting another mortgage. On the other hand, it's a guaranteed rate of return that's probably significantly more than any other guaranteed rate you can find. If you think you can do better with a different investment then go for it. But remember,…

The guaranteed rate on your equity is 0%. Got $500,000 in equity? Then that's $500,000 earning 0% interest. Of course you aren't paying mortgage interest but with mortgage rates at 3.5 - 4.25% it's easy to find investments with higher guaranteed returns. Infinite Banking (using overfunded, dividend paying, whole life insurance) currently has 4.5% guaranteed floors with actual rates with dividends currently at 5.0 - 5…

Your math is wrong. The loan balance isn't reduced by the entire payment, the interest is subtracted first. And it's on the beginning balance, not the end balance. At one time there were progressive payment loans where the balance actually went up the first few years, because the payment didn't cover the entire interest.

Year 1 - Make a $1000 payment, lose $500 interest for a $9500 balance. Your investment yields $500 interest, but you had to withdraw $1000 to make the payment, so you're at $9500.

Year 2 - Make a $1000 payment, lose $475 interest for a $8975 balance. Your investment yields $475 interest, minus the $1000 withdrawal leaves you with $8975.

And so it goes, down to the end. Compound interest works both ways.

Remember what I said above: somebody thought that investing in your mortgage was the best return they could get. Are you willing to bet against them?

Re: I quit the tech industry

#504

Post by seanmheff » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 10:03 PM UTC

reitoei wrote: post #218

maccard wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to get some links to these high-paying jobs in Dublin? Last I checked, IBM were offering sub 30k for graduates, and Microsoft weren't far off the same amount. In US terms, that's 34k USD, for a city where you'll spend 800 dollars a month of your salary on renting a room, and another 170 dollars on communting by bus.

> Last I checked, IBM were offering sub 30k for graduates You expect to walk into an 80k a year job straight out of college? Everyone has to start somewhere. If I was a graduate, I'd much rather be working sub 30k for IBM than sub 40k for Dublin's next Groupon killer/Airbnb for iguanas.

I graduated last year and got offered 34k to work in one of IBM's offices outside Dublin.

I ended up moving to Canada where I earn the equivalent of 36k euro working in a startup. I would say that living expenses are comparable.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#505

Post by copsarebastards » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 10:03 PM UTC

probablyfiction wrote: post #17

This is what burnout looks like. Unless Yelp has a toxic work culture, it's likely the author brought it on themselves by pushing too hard. After several months, the author will probably start thinking about work again, and begin the job search once more. Not to say that the author's points are invalid; it's a terrible feeling to have to spend your most productive hours working on someone else's problems. He or she m…

> Unless Yelp has a toxic work culture, it's likely the author brought it on themselves by pushing too hard.

I think the reality is probably more complicated. Probably Yelp pushes to much work on its employees and the author allowed it to happen.

To be honest, I think more tech jobs are toxic than not; it's very hard to find a good tech job, and even when you do, a good tech job can turn toxic as quickly as a manager leaving. I've always been aware of this and tried to put myself first, but it's not always an easy or even possible thing to do.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#506

Post by coleifer » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 10:06 PM UTC

Fuck this guy and his narcissistic post. So you retired early, the hell do I care? Nothing interesting here beyond a guy with the financial means to leave, and who left. Only a narcissist would think this was something profound.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#507

Post by pc86 » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 10:11 PM UTC

jsprogrammer wrote: post #363

bjelkeman-again wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> cash flow is really the only upside to paying off a mortgage decades early. In my limited experience, the freedom of not having a mortgage and a car loan, or any other type of debt, far outweighs the benefits of just cash flow. We now have a sense of freedom we didn't have Before. I think it is going to be very individual how one reacts to it, but for us having a minimal mortgage or none has made a big difference f…

Unfortunately, because of the way monetary policy is structured, it is not possible for all, or even most, to live without debt. Debt is fundamental to our economy. You can only be without it if someone else takes on some amount of debt.

Who takes on debt if you pay off your mortgage early?

Re: I quit the tech industry

#508

Post by zxcvvcxz » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 10:17 PM UTC

moskie wrote: post #395

zxcvvcxz wrote: post #358

An interesting comment I saw in this thread is the suggestion to take medication [presumably to make working a job easier / more manageable]. To this I say -- are you fucking kidding? Working like we do is already fairly unnatural. Taking medication to allow yourself to continue doing something unnatural, which you don't even like, has to be the one of the most dehumanizing things I can think of. That's modern day, s…

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with the prescriptions you tried, and that they didn't work for you. But don't take that to mean you should lash out at others suggesting it might help this person, or someone else. I think it's a mistake to assume you know exactly what the OP's problem is, what solutions would work, and what solutions won't. There's a good chance he himself doesn't even fully understand why his men…

The notion that one should consider pharmaceuticals as a solution to not deriving happiness from a desk job really is outrageous. And that's just from a statistical standpoint. It's very unlikely to be the "right" solution for that person.

Same goes for ADHD medication for boys (yes, predominantly boys) in grade school because they can't sit still and concentrate as they're expected at such a young age. I find it absurd how commonplace this is becoming. Humans have not fundamentally changed their genetic makeup in the last few hundred years. It's much more likely the case that the environment has become unreasonable, rather than that the kids are failing their roles as humans.

But wait, if you want mindless drones who do as they're told, contribute to bottom lines, buy shit they don't need to satisfy misery they don't understand, then by all means, humans are failing. Let's fix that. Let's over-medicate. Let's teach people how to cope with a life devoid of meaning and passion.

These are the trends I see when I tune into mainstream narratives and general societal expectations. And it pisses me off. Can the right medication help a small subset of the population who are a few standard deviations off in terms of brain chemistry? Of course it can, that goes without saying. Doesn't mean we're not facing some disturbing trends in the developed world.

And I'll express myself however I please within HN's guidelines, thank you very much.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#509

Post by duderific » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 10:34 PM UTC

OneOneOneOne wrote: post #370

eevee wrote: post #345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand the math, but I feel like debt is a huge weight on my shoulders. I grew up with parents who were constantly in more debt than they could handle and constantly reminding me of it. I would rather not be anywhere near that situation again, even if keeping moderate debt would've worked out a little better in the long run.

Thumbs up. Too many people take on unnecessary debt (big house, new cars, toys, ...) It seems like many are at peace with their debt. Going into debt for anything more than a modest house (rather than paying rent) doesn't make sense to me.

I have a pretty sizable mortgage, and it doesn't feel any different to me than renting, other than I am responsible when things break or stop working. The monthly payments are similar if not less than renting.

There are huge upsides, such as that my payment is locked in (I have a fixed rate mortgage), so no egregious rent increases, and we can do anything we want to the house (remodeling, landscaping etc.) to make it our own.

The only way you can get hosed is if housing prices drop and simultaneously you are forced to move, which doesn't seem too likely for me. Many people got crushed in the housing crash, but generally that was because they took on loans that they couldn't afford, with an adjustable rate loan, or they were planning to flip the house and got caught holding the bag when prices plummeted. Those who bought for the right reasons (a place to live rather than an investment) have no downside to their house being worth less than when they bought it.

I guess you could say I am at peace with my debt, in that I don't lie awake at night worrying about all this money I owe, since I'll never have to pay it all back at once anyway.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#510

Post by brobinson » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 10:35 PM UTC

xacaxulu wrote: post #207

lsaferite wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what sucks. As an American I'd still have to pay American income taxes. I cannot wrap my head around how we can say that's ok. Sure, there are ways to get around a portion of the taxes, but those involve things like never coming to the US for more than a set (short) amount of time.

This is false, false, false. Please everyone, if you stay out of the US for ~ 330 days a year, you are untaxed up to about 100k (changes every year). I've done this 2 years and the savings are insane. Federal income taxes are a huge drain on your salary. Go abroad!!

You're also exempt from the Obamacare penalty for not having health insurance if you're out of the country for 330+ days per year. For 2015, it's 2% of your income, and next year it will be higher.

The penalty is 0.1666% per month you didn't have qualifying health insurance for any 3+ month period(s) you didn't have it, e.g., if you didn't have insurance in the months of February-April, you'd be assessed a fine of 0.5% of your income.