Google: 90% of our engineers use the software you wrote (Homebrew), but... • Hacker News Board

Re: Google: 90% of our engineers use the software you wrote (Homebrew), but...

#51

Post by mrobins » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 9:13 PM UTC

sown wrote: post #14

sp332 wrote: post #5

Was it really because he couldn't do the problem, or was it that he didn't handle himself well in the interview? At two different interviews I was given logic puzzles just so they could watch how I went about trying to solve them.

> At two different interviews I was given logic puzzles just so they could watch how I went about trying to solve them. That's usually what they say, but I've found that if you don't solve the puzzles, you don't get hired ever.

That experience doesn't mean that's just what they're saying. It could mean in those cases the person a) didn't solve them problem, and b) didn't demonstrate an approach to solving they problem they were looking for.

Re: Google: 90% of our engineers use the software you wrote (Homebrew), but...

#52

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 9:13 PM UTC

mikek wrote: post #15

At a certain point, your resume should speak for itself. The fact that experienced engineers with impressive resumes are put through these types of interviews is insulting and frustrating to the interviewees. Succeeding at these whiteboard questions requires weeks of preparation. You need to practice, practice, practice. After enough practice, you are pretty likely to pass. So ultimately, it is more of a test of "how…

[deleted]

Re: Google: 90% of our engineers use the software you wrote (Homebrew), but...

#53

Post by el_fuser » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 9:13 PM UTC

Another instance where silicon valley favors the young... he probably would've nailed this question if he'd been only a couple of years removed from school.

He also would've nailed it had he been given 10 minutes to do some research to refresh.

Silicon valley (and the numerous companies that mock the interview style) are testing for the wrong thing when they hire, then complaining about not being able to find good engineers.

Re: Google: 90% of our engineers use the software you wrote (Homebrew), but...

#54

Post by teen » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 9:13 PM UTC

beliu wrote: post #28

We're trying a different approach at Sourcegraph. In addition to looking at a candidate's prior work in open source if available, we ask them to complete tasks that approximate the job as closely as possible (i.e., coding on a computer): https://sourcegraph.com/blog/programming-interview Would love to hear people's thoughts and feedback!

I would never do a take home test for an interview. I did that once and it was such a waste of time.

Re: Google: 90% of our engineers use the software you wrote (Homebrew), but...

#55

Post by sown » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 9:14 PM UTC

mikek wrote: post #15

At a certain point, your resume should speak for itself. The fact that experienced engineers with impressive resumes are put through these types of interviews is insulting and frustrating to the interviewees. Succeeding at these whiteboard questions requires weeks of preparation. You need to practice, practice, practice. After enough practice, you are pretty likely to pass. So ultimately, it is more of a test of "how…

I wonder how much of it is legacy.

Google said early on they want to hire the best and brightest and that was the most important. We got the mantra that passing over a good person is better than hiring a bad one. And they were right. But they're a huge company now. They, and other gigantic tech companies are always complaining they can't find 'good people'.

But how do you make this philosophy scale? Do you say, "This person is smart but lacking some skills so we'll invest in them"?

I have no idea. :(

Re: Google: 90% of our engineers use the software you wrote (Homebrew), but...

#56

Post by nostrademons » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 9:14 PM UTC

mikek wrote: post #15

At a certain point, your resume should speak for itself. The fact that experienced engineers with impressive resumes are put through these types of interviews is insulting and frustrating to the interviewees. Succeeding at these whiteboard questions requires weeks of preparation. You need to practice, practice, practice. After enough practice, you are pretty likely to pass. So ultimately, it is more of a test of "how…

"How much do you want to work here?" is probably a better predictor of your performance on the job than your experience is. I don't see the problem with that: IMHO, the fresh grad who really really wants to be there should be hired over the experienced veteran who's just putting in time. I'd like to think that an experienced veteran who really really wants to be there would also get the job, though, over both of the other candidates.

Re: Google: 90% of our engineers use the software you wrote (Homebrew), but...

#57

Post by nilkn » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 9:14 PM UTC

bla2 wrote: post #3

Interviewing is stressful and all, but if the guy's reaction to not getting hired is to flame on twitter, not hiring might've been the right call.

Actually, I think this is exactly what we need: higher-profile people willing to speak out publicly about the broken interview process.

Re: Google: 90% of our engineers use the software you wrote (Homebrew), but...

#58

Post by oxryly1 » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 9:14 PM UTC

beliu wrote: post #28

We're trying a different approach at Sourcegraph. In addition to looking at a candidate's prior work in open source if available, we ask them to complete tasks that approximate the job as closely as possible (i.e., coding on a computer): https://sourcegraph.com/blog/programming-interview Would love to hear people's thoughts and feedback!

Yours sounds like an approach that measures how well someone codes in a vacuum, instead of how they operate on a team. It very much skews the results...

Not to mention for a qualified professional candidate, it feels an awful lot like you're asking them to work for free.

Re: Google: 90% of our engineers use the software you wrote (Homebrew), but...

#59

Post by supergirl » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 9:15 PM UTC

joshstrange wrote: post #36

To all of those saying ranting on twitter is the wrong move I couldn't disagree more. Twitter is often the ONLY tool that the average person can use to communicate and/or call out large companies on their actions. This is BS and should be made known. Homebrew is an amazing tool and I'd be falling over myself getting the offer papers in this guy's hands if he came to me looking for a job. The fact that google turned h…

maybe Homebrew is amazing, but Google can hire the best people in the world. that day they might've interviewed 10 people better than him who just didn't make a popular tool

Re: Google: 90% of our engineers use the software you wrote (Homebrew), but...

#60

Post by smackfu » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 9:15 PM UTC

nostrademons wrote: post #22

Sorta ironic, but remember that the point of an interview is to determine how well you'd do in the environment that's hiring you , not how good a developer you are . Because Google tends to reinvent the wheel for basically everything, algorithmic knowledge really does matter. Package management only matters within a few very specific subteams. If you're interviewing for a general SWE position, you could be Mark Zucke…

Very good point. It's like, why do you want to work for Google if you aren't into algorithms?