Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Goodbye Sweden

swedenreport.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

101–110 of 115 posts

Re: Goodbye Sweden

#101

Post by m_eiman »

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #57
m_eiman wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is, you are not allowed to talk about it. Really? Then how come I get the impression that politicians and newspapers are full of talk about the topic? Sweden currently spends half their health care budget on immigration costs. On the national level [1]: 47 billion SEK spent on migration and foreign aid. 63 billion SEK spent on health care. Note: most of the health care in Sweden is financed on the regional…

That makes sense - though 47 billion SEK is still a lot, don't you think? The other thing I was referring to was that the Swedish newspaper Expressen exposed the identities of Disqus users, and at least one of them lost heir job as a consequence: http://www.thelocal.se/20131212/millions-of-disqus-comments-... I don't know what these people posted, and I suspect it wasn't that great a contribution, but this is unaccep…

47 billion is a lot of money. In my opinion it's money well spent, but everyone is allowed to have their own opinion of course.

The aid part of that is 29 billion. If we did what we're expected to (what every country is expected to, even if few live up to it), that part should probably be 40 billion - the UN(?) has a goal that every country should spend 1% of GDP on foreign aid.

About the Disqus thing, I'd say that it's ok to expose "public persons" who claim one thing in public and do something different when they think nobody knows its them. This includes politicians, judges, police, other public authorities. Doing this to "normal" people isn't generally justified, IMHO. On the other hand, we have huge problems with bullying online that we need to do something about - and exposing bullies may be a useful part of that.

Re: Goodbye Sweden

#102

Post by eivarv »

nova wrote: post #99
rmxt wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If calling things "racist" is a dream, then so is the sunshine story of blaming everything on "the immigrants" and a "crumbling social fabric." Polarization and naivety are easy, subtlety and deeper understanding are hard.

> Polarization and naivety are easy, subtlety and deeper understanding are hard Isn't precisely the problem that we can't have a rational discussion of this issue without people bringing out the X-word, the R-word, the I-word and others and calling for immediate stop of all criticism of the current situation?

I'd say that the problem seems to be that any attempt at rational discussion inevitably leads to talks of "us" vs. "them", culture war, conspiracy theories and propaganda akin to "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" (including "Eurabia", lying to kafirs, etc.), the negation of moderate muslims and integrated immigrants, stereotypes and generalizations, misrepresented statistics and basically fear mongering dealing with the supposed invading hordes of savages.

The average Joe not being able to tell "racist" from "xenophobe" seems kind of trivial in comparison.

Re: Goodbye Sweden

#103

Post by emp_zealoth »

Intermernet wrote: post #78
emp_zealoth wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please, go on a tour around Norway, then visit Trondheim (still in Norway) Usually you can leave whatever you want anywhere in Norway (for e.g. we did leave our motorcycles with keys in the ignition, i personally left my midrange helmet on a bench overnight, oops) In Trondheim? Everything is nailed to the ground, there are metal bars and comical locks everywhere - the difference? Trondheim ended with a huge group of…

Yes, it's obviously "the gypsies". No other socio-economic factors could come into play at all here. According to Wikipedia, It's a student town ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trondheim#Student_culture ) with over 20% of the population being students. Why don't you blame them as easily as the gypsies?

Mainly because when we visited it wad the only gypsy town, there are other student towns in Norway. And it wasn't unsafe in a student way - it was plagued by horrible levels of theft - hence the ubiquitous fortifications and locks - something that one can hardly blame pn students (at that scale) Ive seen gypsies try to steal with my own bloody eyes, i guess that makes me a racist then...

There is a difference in bellowing "let's hurt anyone we don't like" and "we probably should address the real world"

Suppression of discussion serves no one. In Poland we accepted some chechens, romans, etc. A lot of them refuse to learn even the basics of reading or writing, they are completely dysfunctional on most basic of the levels, they periodically have a decent housing provided for freez which then they utterly ruin, because they now all it takes is to protest they "inhumam treatment" to have it all cleaned out and repaired, for free. They refuse to be a part of local society, the police, social services, etc all alarm about tgeurt utter lack of will to integrate, or even be functional. And every time someone tries to talk about it, a slew of "politically correct" media kills any meaningful discussion

My city is one of most racist, and i am deeply ashamed when there is an attack, be it verbal or physical, on an innocent human.

Re: Goodbye Sweden

#104

Post by norswap »

This reads exactly like Atlas Shrugged, complete with politicians bankrupting the system, unwarranted charity, non-objective scholars and a collapsing railroad system.

I don't know of the situation in Sweden, but I kept wondering if the post was satire. It seemed too one-sided to be totally honest.

And then things like "most of the west had a housing crash" don't increase your confidence in the writing.

Re: Goodbye Sweden

#105

Post by stefantalpalaru »

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #69
_delirium wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Denmark, in my opinion much of the worry is not based on first-hand experience with actual immigrants who have moved to your town and are not integrating well, but rather with a more generalized worry that the culture in some sense is threatened. That's harder to solve with practical measures like integration assistance, because it's not based on specific daily problems but more general ideological worldviews…

That is absolutely correct. But Switzerland has a different kind of immigration - its mostly highly skilled workers, working in IT or as doctors, and some lower skilled labour in the hospitality industry. The total amount is very high though (20%+), which makes people uncomfortable - and understandably so. The situation in Sweden is a bit different though. Many of them are people that have no chance of finding a job…

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/immigration-policy_-in-switzerla... :

> At the end of 2012 there were 1.87 million foreigners in Switzerland, the equivalent of nearly 23.3% of a total population that has passed the 8-million mark. In addition, more than 270,000 cross-border workers hold a job in Switzerland.

I bet that most of the permanent residents and virtually all of the seasonal workers are in the low-skill category.

Re: Goodbye Sweden

#106

Post by stefantalpalaru »

makeitsuckless wrote: post #48
leonk wrote: post #4

Nationalism, xenophobia, and even fascism seems to be on the rise in Sweden - as it is in the rest of Europe. (I'm basing this solely on media coverage and personal observation.) Posts like this show a poor attempt, with entirely subjective observations, to justify some of these attitudes. What's particularly scary is how the poster tries to disguise his views with a belief in socialist politics.

And this reaction is exactly what makes any valid debate in pretty much most of Western Europe impossible. Any time anyone dares to complain about the influence of ultra-reactionary immigrants on the quality and safety of public life, they are immediately branded "nationalist", "xenophobic" or "fascist". Many of us, like myself, are from immigrant backgrounds. There is a world of difference between how our predecesso…

> people of all races

There are no races in the human species.

> Many of us, like myself, are from immigrant backgrounds.

So when do you plan to go back to your own country? What, you think that with the new designated enemy we forgot about you?

Re: Goodbye Sweden

#107

Post by MrBuddyCasino »

stefantalpalaru wrote: post #105
MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is absolutely correct. But Switzerland has a different kind of immigration - its mostly highly skilled workers, working in IT or as doctors, and some lower skilled labour in the hospitality industry. The total amount is very high though (20%+), which makes people uncomfortable - and understandably so. The situation in Sweden is a bit different though. Many of them are people that have no chance of finding a job…

http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/immigration-policy_-in-switzerla... : > At the end of 2012 there were 1.87 million foreigners in Switzerland, the equivalent of nearly 23.3% of a total population that has passed the 8-million mark. In addition, more than 270,000 cross-border workers hold a job in Switzerland. I bet that most of the permanent residents and virtually all of the seasonal workers are in the low-skill category…

No need to guess. Quote [0]: "The admission of people from non-EU/EFTA countries is regulated by the Foreign Nationals Act, and is limited to skilled workers who are urgently required and are likely to integrate successfully in the long term."

And the previously non-regulated EU residents are from a more similar cultural background, so there is a qualitative difference from the situation in Sweden.

[0] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_Switzerland

Re: Goodbye Sweden

#109

Post by cpach »

fyrus wrote: post #75
holgersindbaek wrote: post #62

Dane here... we look at Sweden and sigh. The once prosperous and sensible country seems to have lost it. It's all about being "good" for other peoples money and it seems like there's a sort of self-hatred amongst ethnic Swedes. If you want to see the pinnacle of multiculturalism, feast your eyes on Sweden. I'll give it 10-20 years and then I think we will have a thorough breakdown in Swedish.

Swede here. You nailed it.

LOL. Did you sign up here just to say that?
Post reply on HN