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I quit the tech industry

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Re: I quit the tech industry

#461

Post by crucini »

fideloper wrote: post #411
300bps wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If (debt.interest > investment.interest ), pay off debt first. Else, invest. I disagree with this tremendously. With your strategy, essentially what you are doing is buying stocks on margin. This magnifies your profits if things goes your way and magnifies your losses if things go against you. Think about it this way - Interactive Brokers is an online brokerage with extremely low margin rates which are often half of…

Sure, if you enjoy pedantry, please go ahead and assume that I mean that's the one golden rule and I'm sitting here blindly buying up mutual funds with every spare dollar I have. You make the world a better place.

I thought he made a very interesting point. Your pseudocode looked good until I read that counterargument - now I've got food for thought.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#462

Post by buckbova »

chrismarlow9 wrote: post #447
JDiculous wrote: post #159

The author's rant is not specific to the tech industry at all, it's the case for practically all full-time jobs. Full-time jobs generally suck. Spending the bulk of every weekday in an office doing what you're told is not fun. If it was, then people would do it for free. Day to day work is generally unglamorous and boring. I think part of the blame is that tech employers permeate this notion that one must "love" thei…

This. I waste 2 hours a day commuting. 10 hours a week I'm sitting in the car doing nothing, for no real reason other than some company culture nonsense.

For my last three jobs I've moved close to the office, within 5 to 15 minutes. For my own sanity I had to and I really love it. I have road rage insanity moments out there on the so cal freeways. I know not everyone has this option, but I won't have it any other way for the rest of my working days.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#463

Post by 300bps »

slayed0 wrote: post #455
300bps wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If (debt.interest > investment.interest ), pay off debt first. Else, invest. I disagree with this tremendously. With your strategy, essentially what you are doing is buying stocks on margin. This magnifies your profits if things goes your way and magnifies your losses if things go against you. Think about it this way - Interactive Brokers is an online brokerage with extremely low margin rates which are often half of…

When they said "investment.interest" I think they meant investment return percentage. I don't think they were advocating for investing on margin and maximizing leverage/risk, but rather deciding whether to put your $ towards your debt or towards an investment.

I don't think they were advocating for investing on margin and maximizing leverage/risk, but rather deciding whether to put your $ towards your debt or towards an investment.

It's the same thing. If it makes sense to keep $300,000 in debt to keep a $300,000 investment then it makes sense to go into $300,000 debt to make a $300,000 investment.

Whether that debt is a mortgage on a primary residence for a tax-equivalent-rate of 2.75% or margin interest for a tax-equivalent-rate of 1.63% makes little difference. This is what people who keep a high mortgage and invest the proceeds of that mortgage don't get. They are doing the equivalent of investing on margin which is extremely high risk. They could lose a large portion (or even all) of their investment and still be left with the debt.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#464

Post by jgmmo »

Arjuna wrote: post #225
probablyfiction wrote: post #17

This is what burnout looks like. Unless Yelp has a toxic work culture, it's likely the author brought it on themselves by pushing too hard. After several months, the author will probably start thinking about work again, and begin the job search once more. Not to say that the author's points are invalid; it's a terrible feeling to have to spend your most productive hours working on someone else's problems. He or she m…

This is what burnout looks like. I agree. Boys and girls, as you likely know, burnout is real. But, you can manage it. I'll tell you what I do. Here's the secret: Put yourself first. Now, that sounds quite selfish on first-blush. What exactly does that mean? For me, it means I take care of my health, first and foremost. Before the day is started, before the family is awake, I head off to the gym to be with The Iron.…

Love Lombardi. I have the last paragraph of your quote here written down and stuffed in my wallet, for at least 10 years now.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#465

Post by kadavy »

A huge congratulations to OP! 7 years ago, I got fired (I should have quit, but didn't have the guts). I had enough money to not have to worry for at least a couple of years, and I couldn't find it in my being to work for anyone – not even freelance.

For me, the first couple of weeks was just reminding myself that I still existed – that my "flesh sack" was still there, and would still be there despite the fact that I didn't have a job. Of course, all of the questions about "what will [I] do next?" didn't help this existential crisis.

I gradually got over it. My main metric for my days was reconnecting with the sense of "flow." For enjoying what I was doing in the moment. Thankfully, for me, I could still find that in something that resembled work.

I knew there was something in my brain that I had to discover, so after the first year, I fled SV, away from all of the noise. Two more years of experimentation later (finally supported by some freelance income), I scored a book deal on a topic that was a perfect amalgamation of my curiosities and interest.

I hope you find a similar sense of satisfaction! Just find the joy in what you're doing, and don't let others' expectations create worry for you.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#466

Post by moskie »

mcantelon wrote: post #387
zxcvvcxz wrote: post #358

An interesting comment I saw in this thread is the suggestion to take medication [presumably to make working a job easier / more manageable]. To this I say -- are you fucking kidding? Working like we do is already fairly unnatural. Taking medication to allow yourself to continue doing something unnatural, which you don't even like, has to be the one of the most dehumanizing things I can think of. That's modern day, s…

People love medication these days. Mention any alternatives (increased exercise and sleep that studies have proven work as well as drugs), and you'll get denounced in many forums.

That works both ways. zxcvvcxz just denounced someone for suggesting medication. And it sounds like you're looking down your nose at the idea, too.

Both medications, and lifestyle changes could help. It depends on the situation and the person.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#467

Post by nawitus »

pjungwir wrote: post #436
brightball wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He has actually done one of the best things that he can do in that situation: eliminate expenses. When I tried bootstrapping my startup years ago with periodic contract work the albatross around my neck wasn't anything to do with the company, it was the mortgage and other home expenses that continually made it harder and harder to go without a steady income. People always focus on income without looking at expenses a…

The "Dave Ramsey" approach of paying down debt rather than investing is appealing to me, and I think a lot of people ignore the extra risk of investing. If I can make 4.5% risk-free paying off a mortgage vs 6% in stocks, I'd pay off the mortgage. But here is another consideration I've never seen discussed before: mortgage interest is static, but investment returns are dynamic. My mortgage interest rate is fixed for 3…

This might be one reason why interest rates are typically not static in Europe. They have a static interest margin, though. The "weird" thing is that the interest margin is low when the economy is doing well but high when the economy is not doing well (e.g now), but the Euribor rates the inverse of that.

In other words, someone who took a mortgage 4 or 5 years ago are probably now paying close to zero interest, and anyone who takes a new mortgage now has to pay close to 1.5% interest (which is almost completely composed of the margin). And when/if the economy picks up in 3 to 4 years, that person with the 1.5% margin is going to be paying a lot of interest..

It's also very difficult to get a mortgage with a fixed interest at least in Finland. Not unheard of, of course, but the terms are likely pretty bad.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#468

Post by mootothemax »

lgieron wrote: post #444
mootothemax wrote: post #408

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't speak for Kraków, as I've only had a family since being in Warsaw. I think Warsaw's great. Plenty of green spaces, lots of child-friendly environments, and it's pretty easy - if you choose - to find yourself living in a community of similarly-aged kids where they all look out for one another. The only downside I can think of is navigating stuff like vaccinations, doctors, and general bureaucracy. The majority…

I guess you can do the routine stuff in private health care, where they actually care about the quality of service (so they should be able to communicate in English). It's not really expensive too; in Warsaw appointment with a specialist (cardiologist etc.) is $25-$50. For serious stuff (like surgery) it's best to go with public health care though.

I dunno, I think it's very dependent on the health provider in question. I've had some shockers from Lux Med, both in terms of incredibly bad service (eg doctors clocking off early and then claiming I turned up late, despite being obviously and easily provably false), and issues with a lack of English speakers, despite being assured that it wouldn't be a problem.

In fact, they're bad enough that I actively campaign against them.

Whoops, turned into a rant there by accident, sorry about that :)

Re: I quit the tech industry

#469

Post by dang »

thomas943 wrote: post #400
meritt wrote: post #305

The guy cashed out enough to pay off his entire mortgage and is acting like that's a tough decision. Millions of Americans would love to have that "problem". Millions of people hate their jobs. They don't have the opportunity to just walk away from it, as they often have a family to support. And then he has the gall to ask for donations? Seriously? Can this post be laden with slightly more privilege?

> Can this post be laden with slightly more privilege? Sadly, it probably was laden with even more obnoxious privilege and what we are reading is the edited version. I'm in my late twenties and I am constantly amazed by how pathetic, obnoxious, and truly useless the younger generations have made themselves. This person wants donations to play with pokemons after letting us know they paid off their mortgage. My only h…

> My only hope is that this blog post prevents this person from ever being hired again.

Please don't use HN this way. You're more than welcome to make substantive comments, but pouring vitriol in response to something annoying harms the discourse here. We all have the temptation, but it's important to resist it. Otherwise—long experience shows—the community becomes toxic.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: I quit the tech industry

#470

Post by bcheung »

pjungwir wrote: post #436
brightball wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He has actually done one of the best things that he can do in that situation: eliminate expenses. When I tried bootstrapping my startup years ago with periodic contract work the albatross around my neck wasn't anything to do with the company, it was the mortgage and other home expenses that continually made it harder and harder to go without a steady income. People always focus on income without looking at expenses a…

The "Dave Ramsey" approach of paying down debt rather than investing is appealing to me, and I think a lot of people ignore the extra risk of investing. If I can make 4.5% risk-free paying off a mortgage vs 6% in stocks, I'd pay off the mortgage. But here is another consideration I've never seen discussed before: mortgage interest is static, but investment returns are dynamic. My mortgage interest rate is fixed for 3…

Not a fan of Dave Ramsey. He's great if you don't know finance but his advice is geared towards people in the poor and lower middle class brackets that want to stay there. Same with Suze Orman.

Get an overfunded whole life policy and put the extra money into that. Google "Infinite Banking" or "Cash Flow Banking" to understand how it works.

Current guaranteed rates are 4.5% with dividends it comes out to around 5.5% (in the current market, it tends to follow interest rates very closely). That's 4.5% guaranteed for life from companies that have been around longer and still posted profits through the great depression, dot com crash, and 2008 housing crash.

Gains grow tax free and if you take it out as a loan it is tax free as well. Any money you withdraw is tax free up to the amount you have contributed so far.

You can take out a loan for any purpose, for any reason, at any time. If you don't pay back the loan the company could care less because they are getting the interest and it just comes out of the death benefit. Actually, they prefer you don't pay it back because they make more interest. So it really is win/win. Tax free "withdrawal" for you and more interest for them.

Also, it's a loan against, not a loan from. That means you are borrowing money from the insurance company not your money. The entire balance is still compounding.

And, as an added bonus, you are getting permanent life insurance for your family.

Some risks with paying off a mortgage earlier:

1) Equity in a home earns 0% interest. You're money is not compounding. Got $500,000 in equity. Guess what, that $500,000 is earning 0% interest.

2) Your leverage is decreased when you pay off your mortgage. If you have only 20% down (500% leverage) and your home goes up 10% then you just made a 50% gain. If you pay off your loan then your 10% gain becomes a 10% gain.

3) The money you put into your loan could have been earning interest. Yes, you're paying money on the mortgage interest but the mortgage balance is decreasing while the investment balance is increasing.

You can think of it this way. Should you take out a loan at 5% to invest at 5%? The answer is yes, you will come out ahead. The reason is that you are only paying 5% of the whole amount in the beginning. Towards the end you are paying 5% on a very tiny balance. If you pay in level payments then your loan is effectively costing you 2.5% while your investment is getting 5%. It's net positive.

4) Paying down your mortgage means you have more money at risk and less options. If you have some bad luck and default then the bank gets first right to all of your equity. If that equity is stored in a whole life policy it is protected from creditors (may vary from state to state but most are pretty generous). If the bank stands to lose a lot of money they will work with you and give you some flexibility, lower rate, allow you not to make payments for a while, etc. If they can just foreclose then they will do that. The reason a foreclosure is more favorable when you put in more equity is because they can sell it at a lower market rate and still get their money back. If it is underwater and you have very little equity then they would be forced to take a loss from the foreclosure.

5) Your mortgage interest may be tax deductible depending on your circumstance. You are giving that up.

Todd Langford has a really good series of videos that talks about finance and opportunity costs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lp1BZcex6ds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7QCe3rmAv0

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