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ADP Begins to Roll Out a Zenefits Competitor

blog.zenefits.com

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Re: ADP Begins to Roll Out a Zenefits Competitor

#11

Post by hoopism »

[deleted] wrote: post #5
hoopism wrote: post #2

I had never heard of Zenefits but I've read the articles that have come across HN thus far. From the standpoint of a non-customer they come across as more consumed with proving a point than just proving they are better. I think they ought to adjust their strategy.

[deleted]

With all the attention why not try and turn the message into a positive one (highlight what you do and why it's better).

A positive message would give people who don't know you a reason to check you out and your existing customers confidence that you are competent to overcome the current situation.

Right now it feels like they are just trying to justify why they failed... even if the succeed in blaming ADP they still fail.

Re: ADP Begins to Roll Out a Zenefits Competitor

#12

Post by ghshephard »

How is what ADP doing (blocking access to their service from Zenefits so they can sell Opum), any different from what twitter does when it blocks services like meerkat from accessing their service when they want to build a business around periscope? I'm not saying that either organization (ADP or Twitter) is acting benevolently (obviously, they are both acting in a competitive manner) - I'm just trying to see if the two are acting in a similar manner.

Re: ADP Begins to Roll Out a Zenefits Competitor

#13

Post by ohitsdom »

cddotdotslash wrote: post #4

I admittedly don't know a lot about this situation beyond what I've read in the news the past day or so. However, isn't it the case that Zenefits is simply building an interface on top of ADP's payroll data? And, from what I've read, it seems like they did this without following the proper procedures (did they write some kind of web scraper?). So if that is the case, ADP has every right to block them. If the situatio…

Zenefits has their users create an admin ADP user. Then zenefits uses those credentials to pull whatever data they want. They chose this route instead of working with ADP's third party system (without giving any justification as to why). I might sympathize if ADP's API access was severely limited or extremely expensive, but it appears as if Zenefits made no efforts to go this route.

Re: ADP Begins to Roll Out a Zenefits Competitor

#14

Post by wvenable »

cddotdotslash wrote: post #4

I admittedly don't know a lot about this situation beyond what I've read in the news the past day or so. However, isn't it the case that Zenefits is simply building an interface on top of ADP's payroll data? And, from what I've read, it seems like they did this without following the proper procedures (did they write some kind of web scraper?). So if that is the case, ADP has every right to block them. If the situatio…

It actually works a bit differently; it's not all scraping. People enter data into Zenefits and then it populates that data into ADP.

I don't think the issue is as cut and dried as the typical web scraping situation and I wonder how HN readers feel about this kind of thing. The data belongs to the client. The client chooses to use both services. Should it matter how the client accesses their own information from the service? Are they required to use a web browser? Would you feel the same about them using their own wget script to automate interactions ADP? At what point does it become improper to access a service differently than that service wishes you to access it?

Re: ADP Begins to Roll Out a Zenefits Competitor

#15

Post by gamblor956 »

wvenable wrote: post #14
cddotdotslash wrote: post #4

I admittedly don't know a lot about this situation beyond what I've read in the news the past day or so. However, isn't it the case that Zenefits is simply building an interface on top of ADP's payroll data? And, from what I've read, it seems like they did this without following the proper procedures (did they write some kind of web scraper?). So if that is the case, ADP has every right to block them. If the situatio…

It actually works a bit differently; it's not all scraping. People enter data into Zenefits and then it populates that data into ADP. I don't think the issue is as cut and dried as the typical web scraping situation and I wonder how HN readers feel about this kind of thing. The data belongs to the client. The client chooses to use both services. Should it matter how the client accesses their own information from the…

Generally, from an ethical perspective, it matters at the point when you choose to build a business on the method of accessing a 3rd party service.

From a legal perspective, the profit-making purpose is irrelevant. Improper access matters when you start using the service.

Re: ADP Begins to Roll Out a Zenefits Competitor

#16

Post by nerdy »

gamblor956 wrote: post #9

Blatant FUD from Zenefits. ADP's new product is an online payroll/HR SaaS that integrates across its entire product line. Zenefit's product is a glorified remote bookkeeping service in which you enter data into the Zenefits website and they re-enter it manually, and usually incorrectly, into the ADP website and scrape the results, usually incorrectly, so they can post a response several days later to your Zenefits ac…

I don't understand the product or companies well, however what you explain is exactly how I felt after reading their post. This kind of thing doesn't even need to be public, let alone posted on the company blog. Calling ADP out about their "corporate value" at the end was unadulterated mud slinging.

It's understandable that they're upset but they should work to keep these problems from spreading outside of their legal team and not get flustered with their competition. From the sound of it they've completely taken their eye off the ball for this distraction and it could easily pave the way for ADP to steamroll them competitively while they sop up their tears.

Re: ADP Begins to Roll Out a Zenefits Competitor

#17

Post by jsprogrammer »

gamblor956 wrote: post #9

Blatant FUD from Zenefits. ADP's new product is an online payroll/HR SaaS that integrates across its entire product line. Zenefit's product is a glorified remote bookkeeping service in which you enter data into the Zenefits website and they re-enter it manually, and usually incorrectly, into the ADP website and scrape the results, usually incorrectly, so they can post a response several days later to your Zenefits ac…

What about the email from ADP, directly stating this product is a competitor to Zenefit's offering?

Re: ADP Begins to Roll Out a Zenefits Competitor

#19

Post by cddotdotslash »

ohitsdom wrote: post #13
cddotdotslash wrote: post #4

I admittedly don't know a lot about this situation beyond what I've read in the news the past day or so. However, isn't it the case that Zenefits is simply building an interface on top of ADP's payroll data? And, from what I've read, it seems like they did this without following the proper procedures (did they write some kind of web scraper?). So if that is the case, ADP has every right to block them. If the situatio…

Zenefits has their users create an admin ADP user. Then zenefits uses those credentials to pull whatever data they want. They chose this route instead of working with ADP's third party system (without giving any justification as to why). I might sympathize if ADP's API access was severely limited or extremely expensive, but it appears as if Zenefits made no efforts to go this route.

Exactly. If I found a third-party company that was having users create accounts on my systems for the purposes of pulling data out, I would block it too, probably more quickly than ADP did.

Imagine if a company asked for your Google password instead of using the proper API channels. I don't know many users who would do that.

Re: ADP Begins to Roll Out a Zenefits Competitor

#20

Post by joshstrange »

gamblor956 wrote: post #9

Blatant FUD from Zenefits. ADP's new product is an online payroll/HR SaaS that integrates across its entire product line. Zenefit's product is a glorified remote bookkeeping service in which you enter data into the Zenefits website and they re-enter it manually, and usually incorrectly, into the ADP website and scrape the results, usually incorrectly, so they can post a response several days later to your Zenefits ac…

If they are so "completely different" then why would the ADP rep say:

> “We are coming out with a product to compete with Zenefits, a full service integrated online payroll and benefits solution.”

I can't seem to argue with Zenefits stance that they are being sued for complaining that their access was cut off in an attempt to kill them off while ADP launches a similar product... On top of that who is ADP to cut off access that their clients are paying for? It doesn't matter if a human logs in or a computer, the cost to ADP is the same. Here they are blocking access for no legitimate reason while launching a competing product. This whole things stinks and I think the smell is coming from ADP....

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