I quit the tech industry • Hacker News Board

Re: I quit the tech industry

#391

Post by zxcvvcxz » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 5:14 PM UTC

infinitone wrote: post #374

zxcvvcxz wrote: post #358

An interesting comment I saw in this thread is the suggestion to take medication [presumably to make working a job easier / more manageable]. To this I say -- are you fucking kidding? Working like we do is already fairly unnatural. Taking medication to allow yourself to continue doing something unnatural, which you don't even like, has to be the one of the most dehumanizing things I can think of. That's modern day, s…

> What you need is: a roof over your head, food, laptop/phone, and a gym membership. Erm... what about I don't know the most human thing before all that... some companionship? Frankly, i find thats actually the real reason for most of these burnouts/crashes. Humans are the most social creatures in the world and this trait is diminished by our tech culture.

Oh yeah, I totally agree. My point is that limiting yourself to the basic necessities that cost $$, while reducing your wage slavery, will enable a much more fulfilling social life.

How many times have you bailed on friends, or skipped meetup-type events because you're just too drained from doing shit you don't want to do for half your waking hours?

Re: I quit the tech industry

#392

Post by johnthealy3 » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 5:16 PM UTC

The article makes a number of points that resonate with me and were the initial reason I felt obligated to start my own company:

* Corporate and management issues / misalignments * Uninteresting work content (e.g. fixing old bugs all the time) * Time and energy drain

I've been reading the two books about Google culture recently (Work Rules! and How Google Works), both of which cover similar issues and (ostensibly) how Google has responded to them. I understand there must be a huge pool of people out there in similar situations, many of whom are the best of the best. It's also clear that a few large companies are trying to figure out how to appeal to this group, while most large companies continue to be consumed by egos and the day to day grind and fail at this.

The most important benefit to having my own company has (by far) been the time management. I feel like I could have the proper amount of time and energy to devote to a child or two, which would have been unthinkable in previous jobs (mine were in consulting, but the same seems to apply to tech).

However, I've also learned a lot about communication from my company, especially when it comes to things that would cause unhappiness or conflict (not agreeing with management, setting boundaries around time, etc). The biggest leap was realizing that if people react negatively, 1) you don't want to work with these people, and 2) there are a ton of people out there who want to work with you because of this. I hope the OP is able to find people who share his/her extremely positive traits to work with.

(Incidentally, I've learned a lot about communication from the poly community as well, and I'm not at all surprised to read OP's about section after reading this post.)

Re: I quit the tech industry

#393

Post by lsaferite » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 5:18 PM UTC

xacaxulu wrote: post #207

lsaferite wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what sucks. As an American I'd still have to pay American income taxes. I cannot wrap my head around how we can say that's ok. Sure, there are ways to get around a portion of the taxes, but those involve things like never coming to the US for more than a set (short) amount of time.

This is false, false, false. Please everyone, if you stay out of the US for ~ 330 days a year, you are untaxed up to about 100k (changes every year). I've done this 2 years and the savings are insane. Federal income taxes are a huge drain on your salary. Go abroad!!

How is it 'false, false, false' exactly?

I mention that there are ways to avoid some of the taxes. I've BEEN an expat so I know how it works.

I also know that I still had to pay taxes even when I stayed out of country long enough just due to income levels. Additionally, with all of my family in the US it was pretty hard to stay out of country enough to avoid taxes.

Am I saying you shouldn't move out of the country? NO! I loved living in Europe. And if you live in a low cost of living country you will save lots of money if you get a US salary or contracts. What I am saying is that as an American you'll likely end up still paying US taxes and you'll still have to file with the IRS every year.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#394

Post by ryandrake » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 5:18 PM UTC

mpdehaan2 wrote: post #144

xienze wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if it makes you feel better, he probably made a bad decision paying off the mortgage right away considering that he has no idea what he's going to do to earn money going forward. It would have been better to continue paying the mortgage for the time being (interest rates are absurdly low) and have a big cushion to fall back on if the whole "I don't wanna be part of the rat race, maaaan" thing doesn't work out.

I think you can probably do better investing than in paying off a mortgage, depending on when you got in on the mortgage rate. Plus, yes, you have that money more liquidated when you need it. (Plus mortgage interest is tax deductible).

You need to account for risk in your calculation, since investing in stocks or bonds is risky, but paying off a 4% mortgage gets you a risk-free 4%. Show me any other risk free investment out there that's that high.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#395

Post by moskie » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 5:20 PM UTC

zxcvvcxz wrote: post #358

An interesting comment I saw in this thread is the suggestion to take medication [presumably to make working a job easier / more manageable]. To this I say -- are you fucking kidding? Working like we do is already fairly unnatural. Taking medication to allow yourself to continue doing something unnatural, which you don't even like, has to be the one of the most dehumanizing things I can think of. That's modern day, s…

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with the prescriptions you tried, and that they didn't work for you. But don't take that to mean you should lash out at others suggesting it might help this person, or someone else. I think it's a mistake to assume you know exactly what the OP's problem is, what solutions would work, and what solutions won't. There's a good chance he himself doesn't even fully understand why his mental state is what it is, and it could involve things besides his shitty work life. It is very possible that medication could help. I understand prescription drugs can be abused, or over-prescribed. But don't denigrate the notion entirely. Responding to the idea with "are you fucking kidding?" is out of line.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#396

Post by thwarted » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 5:27 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #371

rdtsc wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Company I work for tried to solve it using this rule -- don't hire any MBAs. Every manager, product manager, and even salesperson is (or at least was at some point) an engineer. This works in our context (and has worked for many decades apparently). But I doubt this scales to a large size.

That sounds like a very silly policy. Would your mind be blown to learn out there exist many MBAs with engineering backgrounds, and that they're actually not idiots?

It's more appropriate to take a "no MBAs" rule as "no one who self identifies primarily as having an MBA". In my experience, an engineer with an MBA who neglects to even mention their engineering schooling/experience in favor of the MBA is a rare animal.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#397

Post by kamaal » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 5:28 PM UTC

francoisdevlin wrote: post #337

zippy786 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what is fundamentally wrong with the industry. Often those who don't care or don't do much are the highest paid and get more reward that the ones who care the most and always try to do something. Obviously, the environment eventually turns those who care into someone not caring as much. Eventually not caring at all, thus a toxic environment is formed. Some may also feel that this is the norm in most companies…

Perhaps the people who care too much aren't that smart in this case. See the Napoleon anecdote: http://www.johndcook.com/blog/2010/12/27/dumb-and-gets-thing...

Can we stop using the word 'smart' as a synonym for cheating and fraud please?

There is nothing smart about faking and pretending to contribute while doing nothing. All the while taking the rewards and benefits which should actually be going to people who do the real work. This even on a short period of time creates an environment which causes the real contributors to go better places leaving the overall ecosystem starved of much needed work.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#398

Post by nicholas73 » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 5:29 PM UTC

Half your day gone? Try having a baby! Then you can choose between getting 1-2 hours of "me" time at 6am or 10pm, both of which cut into your sleep time.

Not trying to make comparisons here. I was exactly the same prior to fatherhood. But now I wonder how I let all the time go to waste before. Half a day available would be great!

Re: I quit the tech industry

#399

Post by kamaal » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 5:32 PM UTC

angersock wrote: post #268

zippy786 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what is fundamentally wrong with the industry. Often those who don't care or don't do much are the highest paid and get more reward that the ones who care the most and always try to do something. Obviously, the environment eventually turns those who care into someone not caring as much. Eventually not caring at all, thus a toxic environment is formed. Some may also feel that this is the norm in most companies…

The author kinda hints at the key right here: "They’re interesting for a while, but they’re also the same self-inflicted wounds everyone seems to deal with — why is this slow? why is this broken? how can we keep this old code limping along indefinitely without having to rewrite it? how does this thing a former employee wrote even work? They’re cute puzzles, and I can get into solving them for a while, but I don’t car…

Fashion gets old, fast.

Decisions which are made after much thought, planning and running things from a long term perspective turn out to last really long freeing your time up to pursue new projects.

Jumping on to a new framework every few months because its trending on the internets is the reason why every one is in a hurry(to achieve a pointless goal) to do work which has already been done, over and over again.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#400

Post by thomas943 » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 5:36 PM UTC

meritt wrote: post #305

The guy cashed out enough to pay off his entire mortgage and is acting like that's a tough decision. Millions of Americans would love to have that "problem". Millions of people hate their jobs. They don't have the opportunity to just walk away from it, as they often have a family to support. And then he has the gall to ask for donations? Seriously? Can this post be laden with slightly more privilege?

> Can this post be laden with slightly more privilege?

Sadly, it probably was laden with even more obnoxious privilege and what we are reading is the edited version. I'm in my late twenties and I am constantly amazed by how pathetic, obnoxious, and truly useless the younger generations have made themselves. This person wants donations to play with pokemons after letting us know they paid off their mortgage.

My only hope is that this blog post prevents this person from ever being hired again.