I fail to see how this is quitting the tech industry. This is quitting Yelp, but the listing of the Patreon account is all "tech industry" work, just without having a boss or company to be accountable to. The post doesn't seem to insinuate that the author will quit writing software - "Eventually it would be nice to make a thing that actually makes money on its own." Someone who codes and makes money off that product…
Is it really "the industry" if I'm not running a business?
I quit the tech industry
381–390 of 565 posts
Re: I quit the tech industry
#382Earlier quoted context omitted.
You just said: > there are plenty of really well-paying job in the tech industry. And I can walk into an 80k job outside of Dublin. Considering the cost of living in Dublin vs the salary for tech grads versus... anywhere else in the world, you'd be crazy to stay.
> Considering the cost of living in Dublin vs the salary for tech grads versus... anywhere else in the world London, Singapore, Tokyo, Hong Kong, Paris... all way, way more expensive than Dublin. But if you can find a job that will pay 80k euro equivalent to a graduate with a computing degree from a Dublin university and zero industry experience, you should definitely take it, 100%, and I wish you the best of luck. D…
From a brief google, Tokyo looks comparable to Dublin, but the others, yes. However, I wouldn't take a job for 30k living in any of those cities either, that's just nuts. However, it is absolutely possible to get jobs in places where your ratio of cost of living to salary is better than it is in Dublin, even before you factor in how much more you would take home before you end up paying the nuts VAT rates, PAYE, PRSI, USC charges that push you into almost 53% tax at 32k euro. I moved to Edinburgh when I graduated, and forgetting about my salary, my rent is a good 300 euro less a month, my transport bills are lower, I live in a nicer flat than I did before, and general costs of living are lower than they were in Dublin. I have more disposable income than I would have had on the same salary, and the ballpark offers that I have received here are the same as, if not better than home.
The reddit thread in [1] has plenty of people who came out at over 80k euro starting salaries. I'm not saying that everyone can get it, but there are some available.
http://www.reddit.com/r/cscareerquestions/comments/1oiwc2/ne...
Re: I quit the tech industry
#383Earlier quoted context omitted.
I hear Netflix also has a very high pressure culture and if people cant cope up, they are given a generous severance and asked to leave. is this right? how long can a person survive in such environments?
Maybe long term survival isn't the point. I once interviewed with a team and was concerned that everyone seemed very young. I asked, "What's the turnover like?" They said, "Working on this team looks great on your resume and is excellent preparation for your next career step." I read that as: ride 'em hard and burn 'em out.
Re: I quit the tech industry
#384Earlier quoted context omitted.
Company I work for tried to solve it using this rule -- don't hire any MBAs. Every manager, product manager, and even salesperson is (or at least was at some point) an engineer. This works in our context (and has worked for many decades apparently). But I doubt this scales to a large size.
That sounds like a very silly policy. Would your mind be blown to learn out there exist many MBAs with engineering backgrounds, and that they're actually not idiots?
Of course that was just one variable and it wasn't isolated. There could have been other factors and reasons for the said result and it might not have had anything to do with "no MBAs" rules.
I just presented it as a reference or what others do as a "solution".
Re: I quit the tech industry
#385Re: I quit the tech industry
#386Somehow I don't feel much sympathy for this person. Many of us have been working miserable software jobs for years, but we still give it our all and don't throw in the towel.
Yeah it's great that this person made it through, but it's a crappy example for the rest of us.
Re: I quit the tech industry
#387An interesting comment I saw in this thread is the suggestion to take medication [presumably to make working a job easier / more manageable]. To this I say -- are you fucking kidding? Working like we do is already fairly unnatural. Taking medication to allow yourself to continue doing something unnatural, which you don't even like, has to be the one of the most dehumanizing things I can think of. That's modern day, s…
Re: I quit the tech industry
#388Earlier quoted context omitted.
I went through this. Not sure what toxic culture entails, but fucked up deadlines burned me out. Why do all software companies rush so hard.
There are 2 reasons: 1) Developers cannot reliably estimate software timelines. That often comes with experience and age, but many never learn that skill. It is a skill like programming itself. It comes with practice. 2) Break down in communication between management (product managers) and engineers who are writing code. On the first part. Usually junior software developers simply have not had experience shipping sof…
Disagree. Developers can provide reliable low risk estimates that will most certainly be rejected or truncated by management.
The problem is not estimates, the problem is every manager fantasizing that their Captain Kirk strategy,
"I'll have it fixed in 4 minutes, Captain"
"Do it in 2."
is some form of motivating leadership.Re: I quit the tech industry
#389Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are 2 reasons: 1) Developers cannot reliably estimate software timelines. That often comes with experience and age, but many never learn that skill. It is a skill like programming itself. It comes with practice. 2) Break down in communication between management (product managers) and engineers who are writing code. On the first part. Usually junior software developers simply have not had experience shipping sof…
> 1) Developers cannot reliably estimate software timelines. That often comes with experience and age, but many never learn that skill. It is a skill like programming itself. It comes with practice. This is true. But this is the problem that Agile is supposed to help solve -- with the caveat that most companies don't do true Agile. I guess people are now calling it Continuous Delivery, but the idea is the same: you d…
Estimation (i.e. pulling numbers out of your posterier) is not necessary (or usually desirable). What you want to do break down the problems into roughly equal size pieces -- the more the better. Each piece will take a certain amount of time. You can measure this and record the average. This becomes the estimated amount of time for each piece. Obviously the estimate has an error with some kind of distribution (my sleep adled brain is unable to remember what a likely distribution for the amount of time something takes).
It doesn't really matter because the sum of all the pieces will give you an estimate for the overall completion time for all the pieces. This estimate will have a normal distribution.
If you write down a list of all the pieces in priority order, you can draw a line at one piece of functionality and determine when it is likely to be completed, along with error bars.
Of course you are unlikely to actually to do the things on your list because if you were able to correctly guess all your requirements before you started the project then you would be in fantasy land. So what you do is tell the stake holders that this is what you are going to do unless they tell you that they want to change their mind.
Of course when you start they will say, "We're not going to change our mind. We're 100% certain that this is right". To which you reply, "Excellent". Every 2 weeks or so, once you have done some work and can show it to the stake holders, you should also have a list of new ideas. You should explain these new ideas and say, "Do you want to change the list to add these new ideas". Whether they say "Yes" or "No", you should reply with, "Excellent" and carry on.
Often the stake holders will have an "emergency" and decide that they have new opportunities which change your list. To this you should say, "Excellent" and change the list.
You should release whenever your stake holders are happy to release.
In this way, you have given the best estimate you can to help the stake holders plan. Any changes to the plan will be made by the stake holders themselves at the earliest possible time. You don't get caught up trying to deliver at any particular date because the stake holders are aware that they are changing the deliverables. You may have to ask them where they want to draw the line and give them new estimates for completion every time they change something, just to reinforce this idea.
The really tricky bit is breaking the work down into small enough pieces. This is very, very difficult and requires a lot of experience. The sucess or failure of the above will very likely rest on the ability to do this, so expect to pay a lot of money for someone with a proven track record doing it. It is often worth hiring a consultant if you have nobody on staff with this experience.
Hope this helps.
Re: I quit the tech industry
#390The only thing I am sad, is that I can't do what he did.