I quit the tech industry • Hacker News Board

Re: I quit the tech industry

#351

Post by mpdehaan2 » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 4:27 PM UTC

mtrn wrote: post #294

zippy786 wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is what is fundamentally wrong with the industry. Often those who don't care or don't do much are the highest paid and get more reward that the ones who care the most and always try to do something. Obviously, the environment eventually turns those who care into someone not caring as much. Eventually not caring at all, thus a toxic environment is formed. Some may also feel that this is the norm in most companies…

That's why I like open source projects. People writing open source might not write perfect code, but often they at least have opinions and beliefs about how things can or should be. Even if you disagree with decisions, you'll learn something. Corporate code just mirrors corporate structure after a while. More and more lines, where other people are or were responsible, where any reason has been driven out (your learni…

I think I've encountered more vitriol on corporate software than corporate things (related to code). Much of the battle is often not about code, but about process, other parts of the organization, etc.

Or at least I should say a lot of OSS projects are corporate, so they feel the same way. The for-fun stuff can be, but it can also wear you down. There's a lot of hate among users of projects that you are directly exposed to, where a paying customer can often be a lot easier to talk to. It's weird.

It's ok and fun when you have a few users, but when you have lots, you find they can be really hard to scale -- so many different points of view, so many different conflicting needs, "managing" people you don't pay, trying to break up disagreements, many more points of compromise, etc.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#352

Post by jaegerpicker » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 4:28 PM UTC

neverartful wrote: post #288

mpdehaan2 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While not burnout related, I found out a while back, and this is somewhat paradoxical, that if I care TOO much, I'm less happy. What happens is I notice all the stuff I can't fix, or need to fix, and other people get stressed out making them fix it. The end result is that I stop caring quite as much (I still care), get happy, and then start caring too much again. It's especially hard at times when you have a lot of e…

Having too much passion? IMO, passion is not sustainable. I believe that dispassionate works much better over the long term. Of course, ymmv.

as you say ymmv but I can be nothing but passionate. If I don't care I simply won't do it unless I'm forced and the results will suck. I need it to matter to me or it's a complete fail. I've spent most of my career looking for a place where that works, I think I've found it but honestly who knows at this point.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#353

Post by eevee » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 4:30 PM UTC

rvdm wrote: post #284

I've been a tech consultant since my late teens but got out and passed all my clients on to a close friend so that I could focus on my own work about a year ago. It was a leap of faith for sure, but where there's a will there's a way. During my decade of consulting I set up some automatic income through a few different routes ( never put all your eggs in one basket! ). I entertain the thought of selling what I'm work…

Thank you! I'm glad you found something simultaneously worthwhile and profitable. Here's hoping I can do it too.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#354

Post by xienze » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 4:31 PM UTC

mvanvoorden wrote: post #240

xienze wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But those are not made up problems, those are necessities and cost only a minimal amount of time per day Minimal, LOL. What world do you live in? I suggest you pay a visit to Amish country some day and see how people unencumbered with "made up problems" live. Farming and other survival-related tasks are literally ALL they do. And it's all you would ever do without people sitting in offices and factories tending to…

You seem to assume that I would be for 'back to basics', without machines and stuff, like the Amish, but that's not what I'm saying. I'm just taking money out of the equation, which means there will still be a lot less jobs to do, resulting in way less work load. Of course machines need to be produced and maintained, but only a fraction of what we build now, and as there is no reason to exercise planned obsolescence…

> You seem to assume that I would be for 'back to basics', without machines and stuff, like the Amish, but that's not what I'm saying.

Without incentive (financial or otherwise), that is what happens. Who's gonna run electric plants? We don't _actually_ need electricity if you wanna get technical. Planes? Maintain roads and bridges? Be an ISP?

Pretty much all of the things we take for granted today were created because of financial incentive. After all, if we're all trying to not work as much as possible, why would anyone _choose_ to do more than they have to to survive?

Re: I quit the tech industry

#355

Post by duopixel » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 4:31 PM UTC

mpdehaan2 wrote: post #139

probablyfiction wrote: post #17

This is what burnout looks like. Unless Yelp has a toxic work culture, it's likely the author brought it on themselves by pushing too hard. After several months, the author will probably start thinking about work again, and begin the job search once more. Not to say that the author's points are invalid; it's a terrible feeling to have to spend your most productive hours working on someone else's problems. He or she m…

While not burnout related, I found out a while back, and this is somewhat paradoxical, that if I care TOO much, I'm less happy. What happens is I notice all the stuff I can't fix, or need to fix, and other people get stressed out making them fix it. The end result is that I stop caring quite as much (I still care), get happy, and then start caring too much again. It's especially hard at times when you have a lot of e…

I have also stumbled upon this catch—care too much and carry the burden of stress and disappointment, or care too little and find no fulfilment in work.

The solution I have found is to practice losing myself in work (achieve flow) and yet not be attached to the result. If it were your checkout line I'd try to be completely focused on dispatching the clients with efficiency and courtesy without looking at the length of the line.

Focused and productive work is a reward in itself. You leave the office feeling energized and the day flies by. The paradox is that by not caring about the result you often produce your best work.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#356

Post by eevee » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 4:33 PM UTC

CrLf wrote: post #59

"I’ve worked remotely my whole career" I wonder how much of a role does this play in (not) caring about your employer's problems... As much as I can understand the benefits of working remotely on occasion, doing it all the time will cause a kind of disconnect all by itself. You see the problems as your employer's problems, instead of your team's problems. Your are fixing your employer instead of helping your teammate…

I grew up on the Internet. I've only ever worked on anything remotely — my job, miscellaneous FOSS, my own things that happened to attract a few collaborators. I met all my closest friends on IRC. I still manage to care about problems. Just not these ones.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#357

Post by eevee » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 4:34 PM UTC

mikemarsh wrote: post #253

"I hate dread. What a completely useless emotion." Funny you should say that, since the sense of dread seemed to motivate this decision pretty heavily. Seems like the emotion was pretty useful as a sort of "burnout immune system".

Ah, interesting! Useless in the same way pain is useless, then — not very helpful in the moment, but it sure teaches you what to avoid in the long run.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#358

Post by zxcvvcxz » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 4:34 PM UTC

An interesting comment I saw in this thread is the suggestion to take medication [presumably to make working a job easier / more manageable].

To this I say -- are you fucking kidding?

Working like we do is already fairly unnatural. Taking medication to allow yourself to continue doing something unnatural, which you don't even like, has to be the one of the most dehumanizing things I can think of. That's modern day, self-induced slavery if you ask me.

And yes, I have experience with this. In college, I met with a psychiatrist about depression-related symptoms. I described my life circumstances (school, work, relationship, etc), and after just one 45-minute session he prescribed me SSRIs. They did nothing, except creates horrific withdrawals as I started coming off them. Then I made the real changes: I ended my toxic relationship, quit my cubicle job, and used my savings to have an enjoyable life for about a year. Then I finished school.

The OP seems to have had a pretty sweet set-up (remote, high-paying job, etc) but misery is still misery. Another comment mentioned burn-out. In my experience burn-out rarely has to do with the volume of work, but rather the mental anguish experienced. I've been burned out working 9 to 5; and energized beyond belief working 12 hour days on my own business.

Here's some advice worth considering for those in similar situations. Quit your job, or figure out how to go part time. Your company won't mind, you're quite replaceable most likely. Really cut down on your expenses; get roommates if you have to (this can be more than a financial improvement -- socializing and having good friends improves your quality of life).

And my god, quit consumer culture. That thing you think you need to buy with your next paycheck? You probably don't. What you need is: a roof over your head, food, laptop/phone, and a gym membership. What's the grand total of all this, maybe $1K/mo? (Depends where you live I suppose.) I'm assuming you're a single mid-late 20s male if you're reading this. What else would do you really need to be happy and spend your time working on your own tech projects?

Best of luck to the OP and anyone else doing something similar.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#359

Post by eevee » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 4:35 PM UTC

aaronem wrote: post #107

cianchette wrote: post #7

After reading on HN about the miners in England yesterday, it's difficult to generate too much sympathy for your situation. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9677863 I hope that you translate your passion into using technology to truly help make the world a better place.

> using technology to truly help make the world a better place This from someone whose accomplishments include mobile advertising and an app that recapitulates hotlinked YouTube annotations? If you're going to make the argument personal, you'll do well to ensure first that doing so won't undermine the moral high ground you're attempting to take.

Phew. I was worried for a moment that making the world a better place would be really hard, but it sounds like the GP has set a really low bar for me.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#360

Post by fecak » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 4:37 PM UTC

eevee wrote: post #318

fecak wrote: post #248

I fail to see how this is quitting the tech industry. This is quitting Yelp, but the listing of the Patreon account is all "tech industry" work, just without having a boss or company to be accountable to. The post doesn't seem to insinuate that the author will quit writing software - "Eventually it would be nice to make a thing that actually makes money on its own." Someone who codes and makes money off that product…

Is it really "the industry" if I'm not running a business?

That is the question I guess. If you are trying to make money from what you do, are you not "running a business"? It might not be a traditional business, but seeking individuals to support you financially for the work you do would qualify as a business to me anyway.

Even if you created multiple revenue streams - write a book, produce a game, Patreon, etc. - which appears to be your intent, you essentially are the business at that point, no? At least that's how I'd view it.