Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

I quit the tech industry

eev.ee

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

221–230 of 565 posts

Re: I quit the tech industry

#221

Post by johnward »

drzaiusapelord wrote: post #212
probablyfiction wrote: post #17

This is what burnout looks like. Unless Yelp has a toxic work culture, it's likely the author brought it on themselves by pushing too hard. After several months, the author will probably start thinking about work again, and begin the job search once more. Not to say that the author's points are invalid; it's a terrible feeling to have to spend your most productive hours working on someone else's problems. He or she m…

This isn't burnout: " I stay up hours later than I mean to, not even doing anything, just trying to put off sleeping — because the next thing I experience will be waking up and going back to work." This is straight up depression. We need to stop using office-cliches like "burnout" and start addressing the very real mental health issues in the tech industry. Maintaining my mental health is like staying in shape, eatin…

I thought that feeling was just normal. I've experienced it basically since I started working in tech. I can't imagine most people want to actually wake up and go to work. It's not possible.

The funny part is I find myself dreaming of going back to stocking shelves at a grocery store like I did in high school. I'd never make enough money to support myself doing something like that though. I romanticize the Peter Gibbons move to go work in construction even though I know I probably wouldn't be happy doing anything. I long for stress free days. Especially when most of the stress I experience is just completely artificial or manufactured by my boss or company. Most of the problems I have at work shouldn't bother me after hours but they never leave.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#222

Post by mootothemax »

lukasm wrote: post #204
mootothemax wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go to Poland - 19% flat income tax rate for companies - you can get flat by 400 euro / month in biggest cities and work remotely for foreign clients. To expand on this: one can operate as a sole trader company, and enjoy the 19% flat income tax rate. You can also register your company for VAT, and then claim back the VAT on company purchases. The only other cost is ~$270 / ~240 EUR / ~180 GBP per month in social insu…

you can pay only 100 Euro for insurance for first 2 years(no pension contribution) The only problem is communication with government, rather impossible without polish.

The only problem is communication with government, rather impossible without polish.

Very true - and very difficult at first, if your Polish is rather poor.

That said, my Polish was terrible, and I managed to bluster through it.

I recently helped an acquaintance through the process, and it turned out I'd done it the wrong way around. First hire a good accountant (mine costs slightly more than usual at $100/mo, thanks to processing many many many invoices/mo), sign over power of attorney for submitting tax documents, and they'll take care of the rest for you.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#223

Post by mtbcoder »

exelius wrote: post #171
aaggarwal wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am going to start working soon. This makes me think if full-time work is really worth it. Wouldn't multiple short-term contracts with regular breaks be able to cut it in today's world? Isn't there people with experience on working on short-term contracts and still living well-off?

Working lots of short-term contracts are fine when the economy is good. But when the economy goes bad, you'll see those contracts dry up very quickly. Then you're looking for a full time job along with everyone else who was doing short term contracts at a time when companies are scaling back hiring. Most of you are going to have a bad time. A full-time job offers some protection from volatility. I'm not going to pret…

> Also, recognize that while the pay may be higher, if you're in the US you also are on the hook for 8% payroll tax that your employer would normally pay on your behalf.

You are on the hook for more than just that. Federal, state and often county taxes (gross receipts, business licenses) will need to be paid. Plus you will need to acquire health insurance, fund your retirement, pay for needed business expenses, etc. Not to mention, most contracts you sign, will require that you also carry some form of business insurance (errors and omissions for example). All these things will slice and dice your hourly rate down severely.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#224

Post by aaggarwal »

exelius wrote: post #171
aaggarwal wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am going to start working soon. This makes me think if full-time work is really worth it. Wouldn't multiple short-term contracts with regular breaks be able to cut it in today's world? Isn't there people with experience on working on short-term contracts and still living well-off?

Working lots of short-term contracts are fine when the economy is good. But when the economy goes bad, you'll see those contracts dry up very quickly. Then you're looking for a full time job along with everyone else who was doing short term contracts at a time when companies are scaling back hiring. Most of you are going to have a bad time. A full-time job offers some protection from volatility. I'm not going to pret…

I am not even sure now that this will work in good economic times, since there is saturation in contract-based assignments, with agencies hiring programmers on very low rate in developing countries. All I can take away from this is that, one needs to have experience and a great network (potential clients) before thinking about contract work. Thank you for your input.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#225

Post by Arjuna »

probablyfiction wrote: post #17

This is what burnout looks like. Unless Yelp has a toxic work culture, it's likely the author brought it on themselves by pushing too hard. After several months, the author will probably start thinking about work again, and begin the job search once more. Not to say that the author's points are invalid; it's a terrible feeling to have to spend your most productive hours working on someone else's problems. He or she m…

This is what burnout looks like.

I agree.

Boys and girls, as you likely know, burnout is real. But, you can manage it. I'll tell you what I do. Here's the secret:

Put yourself first.

Now, that sounds quite selfish on first-blush. What exactly does that mean?

For me, it means I take care of my health, first and foremost. Before the day is started, before the family is awake, I head off to the gym to be with The Iron. Henry Rollins wrote about it much more eloquently that I can, so I urge you to take a moment and read his words [1].

Once you've been with The Iron, nothing can stop you. Sure, you will still have rough days. But, I will tell you that, having been with The Iron, you will know that there is nothing that can bring you down. You will know that you have earned it for yourself on that morning. There is very little that can shake you when you know that. When all else fails around you, when software fails, when management fails, when fear, doubt, uncertainty and self-pity come rumbling toward you like a freight train, when friends forsake you... I am here to tell you that you will gently remind yourself in the midst of the storm:

"I rolled out of the rack to bring it. When most of the world around me was asleep, I paid the price [2], and that is what truly matters today."

And, over time, you will build that attitude, and you will find that you are unshakable. You will find that you will manage your time to make it happen. You will find that, even while you work hard at work, you will not let it control you. The work will always be there; the inbox will always be full, so put yourself first.

You will find that you will start eating right, because you realize that there is a price to be paid in order to stave off feelings that certain foods can cause. The roller-coaster of junk food and caffeine will fade from your life, because you will find that they have a net-negative impact regarding how you want to feel and perform. You may even find that you want to start meditating, to balance the mind.

I know it's old advice. I know that it sounds cliche. But I urge you to try it. Do it for yourself. If you can't do mornings, then do it when you can. Mornings just set the tone for me, but do what works for you.

Take time to put yourself first, every day.

[1] http://www.oldtimestrongman.com/strength-articles/iron-henry...

[2] I'm very fond of Vince Lombardi's words here:

Football is a great deal like life in that it teaches that work, sacrifice, perseverance, competitive drive, selflessness and respect for authority is the price that each and every one of us must pay to achieve any goal that is worthwhile.

To achieve success, whatever the job we have, we must pay a price.

Success is like anything worthwhile. It has a price. You have to pay the price to win and you have to pay the price to get to the point where success is possible. Most important, you must pay the price to stay there. Once you agree upon the price you and your family must pay for success, it enables you to ignore the minor hurts, the opponent's pressure, and the temporary failures.

I've never known a man worth his salt who, in the long run, deep down in his heart, didn't appreciate the grind, the discipline.

A man can be as great as he wants to be. If you believe in yourself and have the courage, the determination, the dedication, the competitive drive, and if you are willing to sacrifice the little things in life and pay the price for the things that are worthwhile, it can be done.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#226

Post by fotoblur »

Unfortunately the world is a cruel place, and this guy wants freedom from it. I know, I took the 3-4 months off after quitting a job to do my own thing. I did earn a few dollars but nothing like what a business was willing to pay for my skills.

We'd all like to be free to do what we want to do, but in all honesty only a fraction of 1% ever get to. And even those people serve a master. Did I ever find the answer, no. I think what its going to take is a huge leap in what we call work.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#227

Post by [deleted] »

simonebrunozzi wrote: post #48
yc1010 wrote: post #11

I have been working for myself for last 8 years after completing my masters, in hindsight financially I did not do too badly (tho there was some great and ups and incredible downs!) and it is NICE working from home and watching your kid grow (tho there are quite a lot of distractions!!! says he who is procrastinating reading HN :D ) BUT if I was offered a job with guaranteed employment and steady wages and (gaaasp pe…

It is (was) great for Ireland, though. That's how they attracted tons of (large) tech companies to Ireland. It's the perfect match: low corporate tax, no incentive for people to go away and do their own startups, which means you can get paid less as there as less alternatives for you. Very smart play by Ireland. Then, the EU went back to them and told them they couldn't keep doing this, and very soon (is it 2016?) th…

[deleted]

Re: I quit the tech industry

#228

Post by brightball »

jlongster wrote: post #210
brightball wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He has actually done one of the best things that he can do in that situation: eliminate expenses. When I tried bootstrapping my startup years ago with periodic contract work the albatross around my neck wasn't anything to do with the company, it was the mortgage and other home expenses that continually made it harder and harder to go without a steady income. People always focus on income without looking at expenses a…

I've always wanted to make $200,000 or so from a successful personal project on the side, just so that I could pay off my mortgage so I didn't have to worry about it anymore. But when I think about really getting that money, I realize I wouldn't do that. If my mortage is $1200/month, I just bought myself 166 months, or ~14 years. If the idea is to quit your job and invest in a company, that's not the smartest move. Y…

While I agree with you on that point, just looking from a cash flow perspective if you were to keep working for a little while after paying everything off you'd likely be able to save a huge amount of money very quickly. Save, invest, relax on a beach...any of it's easier without that mortgage eating away at you.

I remember when I finally got around to doing the math on my first mortgage and realized I was actually going to pay close to triple the sale price of the house if I waited the full 30 years. The real trick, if you don't want to pay off the whole thing, is to make a lump sum payment to pay down about half of the mortgage early. It's the first 10-15 years on a 30 year where the payments are so interest heavy that you're really just throwing away money.

Get about halfway to payoff as fast as you can though and those payments are a whole lot closer to just paying back a cash balance.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#229

Post by aaggarwal »

damoncali wrote: post #165
aaggarwal wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am going to start working soon. This makes me think if full-time work is really worth it. Wouldn't multiple short-term contracts with regular breaks be able to cut it in today's world? Isn't there people with experience on working on short-term contracts and still living well-off?

I do this, but it's not all roses. Getting and keeping those contracts continually takes effort and time. It's stressful when you don't have much line of sight into the future. And even though you can charge a high hourly rate, it's difficult to work lots of billable hours. I need time for context switching, administrivia, marketing. And the one problem I don't see discussed much: on-demand motivation. If you work a…

So, in a way, you are actually running a software consulting/development firm, however, in this case, you just have to manage yourself. Scouting for clients, deadlines are similar to a firm/agency running multiple contracts. I get that it requires pretty good networking and communication skills. Thank you for sharing your experience.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#230

Post by johnward »

JDiculous wrote: post #159

The author's rant is not specific to the tech industry at all, it's the case for practically all full-time jobs. Full-time jobs generally suck. Spending the bulk of every weekday in an office doing what you're told is not fun. If it was, then people would do it for free. Day to day work is generally unglamorous and boring. I think part of the blame is that tech employers permeate this notion that one must "love" thei…

"We can start by demanding that remote work be accepted by our employers."

I used to commute somewhere between 3-4 hours on average each day. Then I started doing part time remote. Now I'm full time remote. I get 4 hours of my day back. Sometimes those for hours end up still being working hours but I guess that's better than being stuck in traffic with the rest of the drones. I still have to travel so I end up with 60 hours weeks when I do but going remote has helped me get a little chunk of my life back. Not enough to make me enjoy what I do but I hate it a very tiny bit less.

Post reply on HN