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I quit the tech industry

eev.ee

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Re: I quit the tech industry

#181

Post by skidoo »

xienze wrote: post #177
mvanvoorden wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Contradict each other. Of course no one WANTS to work but there are things that HAVE to be done. Like farming, hunting, building shelter. Chopping firewood to keep warm in the winter. You know, modern, made up problems like that. But those are not made up problems, those are necessities and cost only a minimal amount of time per day, especially if it can be distributed over many more people. Anyway, how does it cont…

> But those are not made up problems, those are necessities and cost only a minimal amount of time per day Minimal, LOL. What world do you live in? I suggest you pay a visit to Amish country some day and see how people unencumbered with "made up problems" live. Farming and other survival-related tasks are literally ALL they do. And it's all you would ever do without people sitting in offices and factories tending to…

No offense, but I disagree with pretty much all of this. We work more than our ancestors do, not to make an easier life, but for the sake of incorporating the ephemeral and inconsequential into our lives. And an agrarian lifestyle can be loads of fun, actually. I got more of a sense of accomplishment helping on my grandparents' farm than from any blue collar job I've ever held.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#182

Post by flipped_bit »

Understand the author's (Clintonesque) pain, as I am going through a similar problem, but don't have it all figured neatly to disengage from the industry yet.

My own views are that the software industry has reduced its 'professional quotient' a lot, to probably near zero, and hence all this chaos. I used to work in 'well-run and large companies' prior to the internet days, and in some sense we are a victim of the post-internet (mid-90s' post-Netscape) runaway success.

There is no professionalism in the industry anymore, and paradoxically it could be due to the 'open source model'. Don't get me wrong, I like open-source with all that emphasis to openness, freedom etc.. but it has led to the ruin of the small developer. It is forcing a lot of us to jump into the 'entrepreneur/solopreneur' bandwagon.

The openness part described above also includes anyone to jump into the industry (unlike say the medical, or civil-engineering profession; after all do you want a 'hacker heart surgeon' or a 'hacker bridge builder?'). The professionalism is completely mocked at, and all this hero-worshiping of start-up culture etc.. has ruined it.

OTOH, I am not arguing in favor of high-barriers of entry etc... Honestly I don't the answer on how to fix it....

Re: I quit the tech industry

#183

Post by JoeAltmaier »

CrLf wrote: post #88
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a social problem we'll have to address as remote working becomes ubiquitous. It helps if the remote environment is more immersive, with the team aware of each others' presence and activity even when they're not directly communicating. Keeps your head in the space, so to speak.

I think you just described somewhat of a dystopian future... :) Most work is a group effort. Group efforts require the feeling of belonging to a group to be effective. You just cannot get that if you work remotely. Real human interaction cannot be faked or successfully replaced by electronic means. Working remotely a couple of days a week is probably beneficial. It alleviates the pressure of constant interactions pre…

Periodic face time is important. But even in the same building I rarely speak face-to-face with everybody. A message or call or video share is normal even for 'local workers'.

Remote workers can be very effective with the right tools. Hundreds of companies are switching as we speak. I work at Sococo, and we enable it! Some of our clients have actually closed their offices and gone entirely remote, and they love it.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#184

Post by exelius »

rdtsc wrote: post #161
seivan wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I went through this. Not sure what toxic culture entails, but fucked up deadlines burned me out. Why do all software companies rush so hard.

There are 2 reasons: 1) Developers cannot reliably estimate software timelines. That often comes with experience and age, but many never learn that skill. It is a skill like programming itself. It comes with practice. 2) Break down in communication between management (product managers) and engineers who are writing code. On the first part. Usually junior software developers simply have not had experience shipping sof…

> 1) Developers cannot reliably estimate software timelines. That often comes with experience and age, but many never learn that skill. It is a skill like programming itself. It comes with practice.

This is true. But this is the problem that Agile is supposed to help solve -- with the caveat that most companies don't do true Agile. I guess people are now calling it Continuous Delivery, but the idea is the same: you don't tell people when a feature will be done, only when you will be working on it. But even then, even with experienced estimators, the rule of thumb is to add 15-30% to their estimates.

> 2) Break down in communication between management (product managers) and engineers who are writing code.

Totally agree that this is very common. Unfortunately, the best way to solve this is with process, and developers hate process. But developers often don't realize that they can use the process to their advantage: a strong engineering lead can refuse to accept poorly defined requirements. That allows you to push back on product to force them to define the requirement better.

IMO this breakdown is caused by just that: developers who say "oh yeah, I can do that", then start working on the problem and realize that there are a lot of undefined edge cases. If they promised it to the client in 6 months, fine, but define what "it" is.

From the perspective of an MBA, if we have to bring in a contractor to implement it, fine. I know where I can go to hire certified rockstar contract developers at $200/hr, which I will do if the client is lucrative enough. There is no feature I can think of that would take more than 6 months of development.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#185

Post by JoergR »

probablyfiction wrote: post #17

This is what burnout looks like. Unless Yelp has a toxic work culture, it's likely the author brought it on themselves by pushing too hard. After several months, the author will probably start thinking about work again, and begin the job search once more. Not to say that the author's points are invalid; it's a terrible feeling to have to spend your most productive hours working on someone else's problems. He or she m…

> Unless Yelp has a toxic work culture, it's likely the author brought it on themselves by pushing too hard.

Nice victim blaming

Re: I quit the tech industry

#186

Post by hias »

zura wrote: post #106
pessimik wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go to Poland - 19% flat income tax rate for companies - you can get flat by 400 euro / month in biggest cities and work remotely for foreign clients.

Go to Georgia (Europe) - tax haven (0%) for software companies http://www.upsoni.com/blog/?preload=virtual_trade_zone.txt

Georgia is not quite Europe though ;-)

Re: I quit the tech industry

#189

Post by LatencyKills »

mpdehaan2 wrote: post #144
xienze wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if it makes you feel better, he probably made a bad decision paying off the mortgage right away considering that he has no idea what he's going to do to earn money going forward. It would have been better to continue paying the mortgage for the time being (interest rates are absurdly low) and have a big cushion to fall back on if the whole "I don't wanna be part of the rat race, maaaan" thing doesn't work out.

I think you can probably do better investing than in paying off a mortgage, depending on when you got in on the mortgage rate. Plus, yes, you have that money more liquidated when you need it. (Plus mortgage interest is tax deductible).

I agree with you but on the existential side of things not having that mortgage payment hanging over you every month is quite liberating.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#190

Post by thebouv »

Some days I dream about this and going out on my own, or pursuing that startup idea that's been itching the back of my head for so long. I couldn't leave the tech industry per se, but at least changing what I'm doing in it.

But then I realize I've been doing the day-to-day for so long that I have accumulated the trappings thereof: mortgage on a house, two cars, a "comfortable" lifestyle.

To leave puts it at risk. I fear not being able to make it solo. The startup idea will take too long or fail if I bootstrap it. We'll have to move. Downsize. Change our lifestyle. Affect the kids. And a downward spiral of thoughts like that.

So I'm back at my cubicle today. Wishing I was working from home to watch the new baby grow while I code.

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