Live data from Hacker News

I quit the tech industry

eev.ee

171–180 of 565 posts

Re: I quit the tech industry

#171

This is what burnout looks like. Unless Yelp has a toxic work culture, it's likely the author brought it on themselves by pushing too hard. After several months, the author will probably start thinking about work again, and begin the job search once more. Not to say that the author's points are invalid; it's a terrible feeling to have to spend your most productive hours working on someone else's problems. He or she m…

I am going to start working soon. This makes me think if full-time work is really worth it. Wouldn't multiple short-term contracts with regular breaks be able to cut it in today's world? Isn't there people with experience on working on short-term contracts and still living well-off?

Working lots of short-term contracts are fine when the economy is good. But when the economy goes bad, you'll see those contracts dry up very quickly. Then you're looking for a full time job along with everyone else who was doing short term contracts at a time when companies are scaling back hiring. Most of you are going to have a bad time.

A full-time job offers some protection from volatility. I'm not going to pretend that nobody has ever been laid off from a full-time job, but if you work contracts you have ZERO job security. And contractors are the first thing to go in cost cutting mode.

If you go the independent contractor route, make sure your emergency fund can cover 18-24 months of expenses. Also, recognize that while the pay may be higher, if you're in the US you also are on the hook for 8% payroll tax that your employer would normally pay on your behalf.

If you go this route, you need to adjust your definition of "well off". If you are looking to keep pace with your friends working at Google and making $150k, that's pretty unlikely. But you can probably pull $60k and still meet your savings goals, and $60k/yr is more than enough to live comfortably on. And that number won't be static; some years you might make $100k and some years you might make $20k. You need your savings to be able to survive the lean years.

All that said, based on your comment I assume you have no work experience. Why would you hire yourself for a short-term contract over someone else? Go work somewhere full-time for at least a few years until you have a good answer for that question. You almost certainly have a whole lot of tradecraft to learn as well. Once you've built up some experience (and some contacts) you can think about contracting.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#172
post #125
post #43

"I had stock options, and I cashed them all in last week. I net enough to pay off the mortgage, so I’m doing that, which will leave the entire household debt-free and cut our expenses drastically." I'm happy for you. Even a tiny bit jealous. But it does in the end make the whole post sound like a humblebrag to me.

But that's how all posts like these go, HN loves to upvote them for some reason but they all boil down to "I'm quitting because I have enough money to do it".

Boy oh boy, that really puts a different spin on this post, doesn't it. I wish I had the cash to throw this kind of tantrum.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#173

This is what burnout looks like. Unless Yelp has a toxic work culture, it's likely the author brought it on themselves by pushing too hard. After several months, the author will probably start thinking about work again, and begin the job search once more. Not to say that the author's points are invalid; it's a terrible feeling to have to spend your most productive hours working on someone else's problems. He or she m…

I am going to start working soon. This makes me think if full-time work is really worth it. Wouldn't multiple short-term contracts with regular breaks be able to cut it in today's world? Isn't there people with experience on working on short-term contracts and still living well-off?

> Isn't there people with experience on working on short-term contracts and still living well-off?

This is just my opinion and I can only speak from a US perspective, but yes and no. The ones who are able to do this have already gotten a 10+ year head start and have built up a deep network from which to source work from. The ones who are starting out today are more than likely having a very tough go at it. Competition for contracts is much more intense compared to 10, 15 years ago and you really need to bring more to the table than just "javascript developer" or "wordpress consultant".

I know there exists this love-affair on HN with running off to become independent contractor, live on a beach writing code and making your own hours. I'm not saying it's impossible, but the reality though is that in the end you are building a business (even if it's just you). All the energy, time, risk and money that it takes to run a regular businesses will be just the same with running your own consultancy. The downtime you think you will have to yourself in-between contracts will be eaten up by having to find the next contract. If you happen to unfortunately live in or near a city with a high cost of living, the pressure will be even more intense.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#175
post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good lord, 53% tax plus 23% VAT plus utilities tax plus monthly healthcare premiums plus...? The OP's overstating their case a bit, see the tax calculator here: http://services.deloitte.ie/tc/ (you'll get close to 60k in your pocket from 100k.) The wikipedia article's pretty comprehensive: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_the_Republic_of_Ire...

Actually I was discussing that once you reach the low threshold for higher rate tax of about ~€32-33K every single euro above this will be taxed at over 50%, below this its about 20-25% depending on a wide range of circumstances and variables. This punitive tax regime makes you question as to why bother working longer and harder and kills any will to start new projects since you know you will be robbed if you ever (i…

Actually I was discussing that once you reach the low threshold for higher rate tax of about ~€32-33K every single euro above this will be taxed at over 50%, below this its about 20-25% depending on a wide range of circumstances and variables.

Honestly, I'm genuinely not scandalised about the rates you've listed; they seem pretty standard for Europe.

This punitive tax regime makes you question as to why bother working longer and harder and kills any will to start new projects since you know you will be robbed if you ever (in the unlikely minority) become successful

A top rate of 50% isn't that scandalous. It's a lot, and there are plenty of means to reduce it. Personally, I'm far more concerned about getting the point where the top tax rate is a serious problem for me in the first place.

AND to add insult to injury you do not get much for your taxes and from your after tax income you endup paying all sorts of further hidden taxes just to live here.

I fear that if you think living elsewhere is going to result in a major change on your life from the tax rate alone, the options are few and far between. I've heard that you either love or hate Dubai, for instance.

(of course, there are always exceptions on prices of e.g. clothing, computing goods etc. etc. Always idly tempting to imagine moving somewhere that doesn't have VAT!)

Re: I quit the tech industry

#176
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I quit the tech industry over a year ago and I'm not itching back. Maybe if I did something part time that could work, because I don't want to spend more than 20 hours a week working.

What industry are you now in, that you can work 20h/week? Just curious, you are living my dream.

I've been doing devops contracting for a startup at 25 hours/week lately. I'm digging it a lot, because it gives me two days during the work week to go outside and plenty of time to work on my own stuff. I don't feel guilty when I go home after one of those work days and don't put time in on one of my projects. That's a powerful thing.

(Shameless plug: one of my arrangements is ending soon and I'll be taking on more devops and automation work; at every place I've been I've added pretty big multipliers to engineering output in a fairly short amount of time, and my email's in my profile if that appeals to you.)

Re: I quit the tech industry

#177
post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We're not meant to do jobs, this is just some modern made up concept to keep people busy And > We would be in a world where only work is done that is needed Contradict each other. Of course no one WANTS to work but there are things that HAVE to be done. Like farming, hunting, building shelter. Chopping firewood to keep warm in the winter. You know, modern, made up problems like that. > We would live in a world wher…

>Contradict each other. Of course no one WANTS to work but there are things that HAVE to be done. Like farming, hunting, building shelter. Chopping firewood to keep warm in the winter. You know, modern, made up problems like that. But those are not made up problems, those are necessities and cost only a minimal amount of time per day, especially if it can be distributed over many more people. Anyway, how does it cont…

> But those are not made up problems, those are necessities and cost only a minimal amount of time per day

Minimal, LOL. What world do you live in? I suggest you pay a visit to Amish country some day and see how people unencumbered with "made up problems" live. Farming and other survival-related tasks are literally ALL they do. And it's all you would ever do without people sitting in offices and factories tending to "made up problems" in order to make your life simpler.

> How is there no time to pursue anything? When I was travelling and not working at all for two years, my quest for survival meant that I had to get food and water

Were you hunting and farming or scraping together a couple bucks so you could head down to a store or restaurant to get food? You would not be able to do that without an army of people in farms, factories, and offices making the whole thing work.

> If there is any hard physical work to do, we have machines for this

Who builds the machines? A bunch of people tending to "made up problems" in offices and factories.

It's very tempting to think you've unlocked the meaning of life after slumming through Europe for a year and a half but you're totally ignoring the fact that there are numerous people working on "made up problems" in tech, agriculture, and manufacturing making it possible for you to do that. You absolutely do not want to revert to an agrarian lifestyle. It's not fun. Realize that some of these "made up problems" in the first world help you actually live a better life than a life of subsistence would.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#178

We're not meant to do jobs, this is just some modern made up concept to keep people busy so they don't see they are actually analogous to cattle. So that you don't care about the virtual problems you solve for virtual company X, is perfectly normal and healthy. They are not your problems, they are not even remotely life-threatening, and so they are not relevant for survival. Jobs are just created to keep us busy, as…

>So that you don't care about the virtual problems you solve for virtual company X, is perfectly normal and healthy. They are not your problems, they are not even remotely life-threatening, and so they are not relevant for survival.

Reminds me of:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx%27s_theory_of_alienation

Re: I quit the tech industry

#179
post #2

Having a traditional job is such a terrible experience. At the very least, it's terrible if you're not 100% in love with whatever company project you're working on. I think there are some personality types that are suited to traditional jobs though, since most people don't share my concerns when I tell them how terrible it is to have a job. Because of this, I think more people like the author of this post should purs…

Exactly, this is why it's called "The Grind". My wife works 40 hours per week at a local government facility, and I work the same schedule at a private company. We have maybe three hours of time together each evening, and that time is taken by household chores, cooking (which I mostly do), eating dinner, then we usually each have something we wanted to do separately. By the time we're ready to spend time together, it's bedtime. It's been a drain on both of us mentally and emotionally, and if we weren't so amazingly compatible it would be an issue in our marriage. As it is, I'm planning on going back to government work myself on a rotating 12 hour shift so I have days off during the week, and can take care of those household chores that take away a lot of our free time together. It will also allow me to get back to my writing, which is difficult to do after a mentally exhausting nine-to-five day of fixing other people's issues.

Re: I quit the tech industry

#180
post #81
post #11

I have been working for myself for last 8 years after completing my masters, in hindsight financially I did not do too badly (tho there was some great and ups and incredible downs!) and it is NICE working from home and watching your kid grow (tho there are quite a lot of distractions!!! says he who is procrastinating reading HN :D ) BUT if I was offered a job with guaranteed employment and steady wages and (gaaasp pe…

I did exactly this. Was contracting for 8 years in Dublin, commuting almost 3 hours daily. I was making good (but not amazing) money. Then the kids came, and that 3 hour commute became 3 hours that I could spend helping my wife or spending time with my kids. Got offered a full-time job in the tech industry with (gaaasp pension!) outside of Dublin, 5 minutes from my front door, with better salary, bonuses and healthca…

A pension? I've never heard of a pension in tech (though I am from a different country than you). I've never heard of companies taking part of their earnings to invest in the well being of their people. The most I have heard of are perks like ping-pong, a free beer once in a while, and conferences. They often even give you a computer to work on! And a chair to sit in!

(I kid you not, these are often listed as perks in tech job ads)

Obviously startups are not the place to look for a pension but I haven't even heard of established companies in tech offering them.

Seems like a dead-end career if you care about retiring and sending your kids to a decent school (if that's what they want). My grandfather-in-law was set for life when he retired as a mechanical engineer. I'm in my mid-30s and I don't see my career ever ending and my financial future seems like it will always be at risk no matter how I invest and manage my savings.

What kind of company, might I ask, offers such a rare thing?

Post reply on HN