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Goodbye Sweden

swedenreport.org

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Re: Goodbye Sweden

#71

Post by brisance »

GordonS wrote: post #50
brisance wrote: post #44

As a Singaporean, I laugh at these low immigration numbers. 150K per year out of 9.8 million residents, that's a drop in the ocean. According to the government, the total population of Singapore is 5.26M. Out of this, 3.27M are citizens, with 540K Permanent Residents and 1.46M non-residents. In other words, about 2M or 38% of the population were not born in Singapore.[1] Note that this is a conservative estimate sinc…

Singapore is very different though, with a long history of immigration. Additionally, my understanding of Singapore's immigration laws (I looked into migrating there myself a few years ago) is that it's difficult to do so for anything other than economic reasons - you have to prove you have a job offer or can contribute substantially to Singapore's economy.

You are right. As long as you can demonstrate an ability to generate income for yourself and thus by extension taxes for the government, you are welcome here.

Needless to say, this one-dimensional measure of a person's "worth" unfortunately attracts exactly the sort of pompous ass that everyone dislikes.

Edit: I re-read my post and realized it could be misconstrued to mean that you are not welcome. I apologize if this was your interpretation. I meant to say, using "economic indicators" as a basis for assessing whether an immigrant is "worthy" to join the tribe is misguided.

Re: Goodbye Sweden

#73

Post by emp_zealoth »

leonk wrote: post #4

Nationalism, xenophobia, and even fascism seems to be on the rise in Sweden - as it is in the rest of Europe. (I'm basing this solely on media coverage and personal observation.) Posts like this show a poor attempt, with entirely subjective observations, to justify some of these attitudes. What's particularly scary is how the poster tries to disguise his views with a belief in socialist politics.

Please, go on a tour around Norway, then visit Trondheim (still in Norway) Usually you can leave whatever you want anywhere in Norway (for e.g. we did leave our motorcycles with keys in the ignition, i personally left my midrange helmet on a bench overnight, oops) In Trondheim? Everything is nailed to the ground, there are metal bars and comical locks everywhere - the difference? Trondheim ended with a huge group of gypsies a few years back. Also, look at the hotpots of crime in Norway

Re: Goodbye Sweden

#74

Post by fyrus »

Trufa wrote: post #70
cupofjoakim wrote: post #20

Swede here – I don't agree with this post. He does bring up some very good point about the real estate situation though. I do, however, think that it's wrong to say that Stefan Löfven is a 'corrupt yokel'. He's been in a very hard situation politically, where he's been forced to rule as a minority. The opposition is doing everything they can to make sure that he looks incompetent as a leader, as it's basically ensuri…

Yeah, don't be confused, this article is racist and xenophobic, in it's most dangerous form, hidden as something else.

It's so damn easy to play the racist card every single time instead of facing reality, isn't it?

Re: Goodbye Sweden

#75

Post by fyrus »

holgersindbaek wrote: post #62

Dane here... we look at Sweden and sigh. The once prosperous and sensible country seems to have lost it. It's all about being "good" for other peoples money and it seems like there's a sort of self-hatred amongst ethnic Swedes. If you want to see the pinnacle of multiculturalism, feast your eyes on Sweden. I'll give it 10-20 years and then I think we will have a thorough breakdown in Swedish.

Swede here. You nailed it.

Re: Goodbye Sweden

#76

Post by al2o3cr »

makeitsuckless wrote: post #48
leonk wrote: post #4

Nationalism, xenophobia, and even fascism seems to be on the rise in Sweden - as it is in the rest of Europe. (I'm basing this solely on media coverage and personal observation.) Posts like this show a poor attempt, with entirely subjective observations, to justify some of these attitudes. What's particularly scary is how the poster tries to disguise his views with a belief in socialist politics.

And this reaction is exactly what makes any valid debate in pretty much most of Western Europe impossible. Any time anyone dares to complain about the influence of ultra-reactionary immigrants on the quality and safety of public life, they are immediately branded "nationalist", "xenophobic" or "fascist". Many of us, like myself, are from immigrant backgrounds. There is a world of difference between how our predecesso…

"People who aggressively and violently oppose the liberal values of our nations are not immigrants, they are invaders"

You guys should've done more to keep the Sweden Democrats out of the country then, I guess. ;)

Also, wanting life to be better doesn't make you fascist. But deciding that the only thing between you and a mythical past of glory is a tiny fraction of the population that needs to "defeated" is certainly goose-stepping in that direction. See Robert Paxton's 2004 book for more.

Re: Goodbye Sweden

#77

Post by brisance »

draugadrotten wrote: post #52
brisance wrote: post #44

As a Singaporean, I laugh at these low immigration numbers. 150K per year out of 9.8 million residents, that's a drop in the ocean. According to the government, the total population of Singapore is 5.26M. Out of this, 3.27M are citizens, with 540K Permanent Residents and 1.46M non-residents. In other words, about 2M or 38% of the population were not born in Singapore.[1] Note that this is a conservative estimate sinc…

> 38% of the population were not born in Singapore How many of these are out of work and lives on public welfare?

If you're a foreigner in Singapore and you are not:

a) a tourist, b) a spouse of a Singaporean, c) a student enrolled in a Singapore school, d) gainfully employed by a Singapore-registered business

Chances are pretty good you are an illegal immigrant. So to answer your question, foreigners who are out of work are deported to their country of origin at the earliest opportunity.

But that's not the problem. The growing problem is that the immigrants do not assimilate well, form their own enclaves and are hiring their own countrymen at the expense of locals. Recently there was a report where the IT and HR departments of a Singapore firm, being run by predominantly foreigners, colluded to bring in their own countrymen and discriminated against Singaporean job applicants. They received kickbacks but got caught because the Singaporean owner, being IT savvy, had been monitoring the situation and thought something was amiss in the low number of Singaporean applicants.

Re: Goodbye Sweden

#78

Post by Intermernet »

emp_zealoth wrote: post #73
leonk wrote: post #4

Nationalism, xenophobia, and even fascism seems to be on the rise in Sweden - as it is in the rest of Europe. (I'm basing this solely on media coverage and personal observation.) Posts like this show a poor attempt, with entirely subjective observations, to justify some of these attitudes. What's particularly scary is how the poster tries to disguise his views with a belief in socialist politics.

Please, go on a tour around Norway, then visit Trondheim (still in Norway) Usually you can leave whatever you want anywhere in Norway (for e.g. we did leave our motorcycles with keys in the ignition, i personally left my midrange helmet on a bench overnight, oops) In Trondheim? Everything is nailed to the ground, there are metal bars and comical locks everywhere - the difference? Trondheim ended with a huge group of…

Yes, it's obviously "the gypsies". No other socio-economic factors could come into play at all here.

According to Wikipedia, It's a student town (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trondheim#Student_culture) with over 20% of the population being students. Why don't you blame them as easily as the gypsies?

Re: Goodbye Sweden

#79

Post by saiya-jin »

imaginenore wrote: post #19
mahouse wrote: post #8

Sweden is the best example of what happens when you have a completely liberal society. And, of course, it's bleeding to lots of places. And if you call them out, you are called racist.

Agreed. Instead of letting only smart/educated immigrants in, they let EVERYONE in. This is a horrible idea. If you want to help the poor outside of your country, you should help them elevate themselves, not lower your own country to the global average. The political correctness trumps everything in Sweden. You can't discuss the violence of Islam without being called a racist (even if Islam is not a race).

this is what switzerland is doing, and it seem one of very few countries, who got the immigration right from the start, in long term.

it's a tricky situation... there is more people trying to come here in europe than there is sustainable place (economically wise) to be absorbed into. we have quite a bit of an economical crisis going on here, which doesn't help. so basically masses march in, we have no job for them, meaning they don't contribute to our society, just consume.

on the other side, they often come from horrible places, have to endure the travel with real chances of dying. that should tell you a bit how desperate they are.

In ideal world, we should focus our resources on improving state of their home countries, so they don't have to run away in first place.

In real world... since many screwed countries are results of US (CIA, military) meddling with their internals and failing spectacularly (or succeeding greatly, depending on what the real objectives were), I say forward a large portion of them there. After first 100.000, let's talk :)

Re: Goodbye Sweden

#80

Post by Trufa »

fyrus wrote: post #74
Trufa wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, don't be confused, this article is racist and xenophobic, in it's most dangerous form, hidden as something else.

It's so damn easy to play the racist card every single time instead of facing reality, isn't it?

No, it's actually the hard way.

This is the easy way:

Foreigners come to country ->

Foreigners need jobs ->

Foreigners get jobs ->

Less jobs for nationals.

That's a very easy reasoning to following, it also gathers a lot of popularity, specially if I'm out of a job o with one I don't like.

Explaining why this is not true, or rather why it is much more complex than that, takes a lot of time, effort and understanding of non trivial economic concepts.

I would say the later is the hard way, this kind of reasoning applies to so many things that said by politicians all around the world to gather votes.

I would also like to clarify that I absolutely don't believe that that kind of reasoning is only used by the right wing politicians, that would be extremely naive.

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