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Goodbye Sweden

swedenreport.org

61–70 of 115 posts

Re: Goodbye Sweden

#61

"crumbling rail system"? Going to Sweden on vacation. Please tell me it's BS :)

Seriously, Sweden is an amazing country, so beautiful. People are so welcoming there, it's incredibly safe and easy to go around.

Everybody speaks English and is willing to help.

Some swedes that were mingling with some of this horrible immigrants the blogger was talking about where kind enough, to invite me to their place to sleep.

Don't guide yourself by anything on this article, I'm surprised it got so far.

Go to Sweden and enjoy that amazing country.

Re: Goodbye Sweden

#62
Dane here... we look at Sweden and sigh. The once prosperous and sensible country seems to have lost it. It's all about being "good" for other peoples money and it seems like there's a sort of self-hatred amongst ethnic Swedes. If you want to see the pinnacle of multiculturalism, feast your eyes on Sweden. I'll give it 10-20 years and then I think we will have a thorough breakdown in Swedish.

Re: Goodbye Sweden

#63
post #56

As a Singaporean, I laugh at these low immigration numbers. 150K per year out of 9.8 million residents, that's a drop in the ocean. According to the government, the total population of Singapore is 5.26M. Out of this, 3.27M are citizens, with 540K Permanent Residents and 1.46M non-residents. In other words, about 2M or 38% of the population were not born in Singapore.[1] Note that this is a conservative estimate sinc…

So that we are talking about the same thing, from where is the immigration coming from? Is it primarily neighboring countries with similar language, culture, and religion, or is it like Sweden where commonality in culture is the exception rather than the norm?

As of 2014, about 55% are from other South-East Asian countries. But the government has a policy of maintaining a stable "ethnic mix" which means that there are now a lot of mainland Chinese. And while I'm also Chinese by ethnicity, you can ask other ethnic Chinese from Hong Kong, Taiwan or Malaysia what they think about the nouveau riche from China. :)

Source: http://www.nptd.gov.sg/portals/0/homepage/highlights/populat...

Re: Goodbye Sweden

#64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People here in Scandinavia are very worried because their cozy little village of a region is being infused with massively different cultures. Can't really blame them, and to be sure crime and social costs are higher as a result of immigration. That said, there is every reason to believe that these effects will diminish over time as immigrants start to integrate, even some beneficial effects are already showing. The p…

Here in Denmark, in my opinion much of the worry is not based on first-hand experience with actual immigrants who have moved to your town and are not integrating well, but rather with a more generalized worry that the culture in some sense is threatened. That's harder to solve with practical measures like integration assistance, because it's not based on specific daily problems but more general ideological worldviews…

Are you sure that an European equivalent of white-flight hasn't happened? People who are less likely to like living with immigrants are likely to move to suburbs or not move to the cities in the first place.

Enclaves are caused by "tipping" in a Schelling check-board model. It would be interesting to check the data to this type of model.

Re: Goodbye Sweden

#65

"crumbling rail system"? Going to Sweden on vacation. Please tell me it's BS :)

Crumbling is not the same as crumbled. There is an increasing problem with maintenance that has been neglected over the years and they have been plagued by some embarrassing and high profiled delays over the past year or two. They've also been a bit slow with replacing some trains, but on the whole it still works well enough.

Better than the Italians, not as good as the Japanese basically.

Re: Goodbye Sweden

#66
Now, to be clear, it is my opinion that modest immigration is healthy for society and beneficial for trade, cultural development and so forth. Protectionism as a concept is counter-productive, while free trade and the ability for skilled labor to go where they’re in demand is beneficial for everyone.

Having said that, what Sweden is doing is something completely different. The once homogenous population has been forever altered by a rapid and massive addition of people from vastly different cultures and value-systems.

tl;dr: Protectionism is bad. Sweden should be protectionist and homogenous.

... if the rest of the article is like this I'm not sure of the value of it.

Re: Goodbye Sweden

#67
post #58
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OP mentioned 26.8% for Sweden. That is not low compared to Singapore.

That's 26.8% that either weren't born in the country _or have at least one foreign-born parent_. That's a pretty significant difference. I was born in Sweden and can trace my direct Swedish ancestry back at least 400 years and I still fall into that 26.8%.

Fwiw, some foreign-born numbers: 15% of the Swedish population is foreign-born. Of those, about 1/3 were born in another EU country, who are immigrants but not really what the current controversy is about (the largest single foreign-born group in Sweden are from Finland, constituting about 1.5% of the population). The remaining 10%, born outside the EU, are what "immigration politics" is mainly talking about. (The comparable figure for Denmark is a bit lower; around 5-6% of the population are born outside the EU.)

Re: Goodbye Sweden

#68
Everyone has their own view and cling to their reality with confirmation bias and cherry picking. The optimists say we'll work out any problems, this is a transition period, the complainers are exaggerating and "everything's fine where I live" The pessimists will say things are only getting worse and that the optimists are ignoring real problems.

I live in Stockholm and try very hard to have a nuanced view. Unfortunately, more and more, I see the pessimists view. It isn't as bad as the worst pessimists are saying, but it's also far from as good as the optimists are claiming. Sweden is a 2/3 parts tenderizing frog that's ignoring that the temperature is rising and 1/3 that's boiling.

If we see past the actual issues, which are complex and multifaceted, there's a number of trends in Sweden that's deeply disturbing

1) The level of discourse is only getting worse and more polarized. Populism, emotions and who can make most noise wins over any rational nuanced debate.

2) The quality of politicians are becoming more corrupt and separated from their voters, while resorting to pandering to whatever gives them votes, money and power. It's frightening to see the lack of competence in any party right now.

3) A naive sense of security and refusal of many Swedes to believe things are getting worse and that we are facing real problems. We don't seem to value what we always had and can't conceive we'll ever lose it. Even though education, pensions and care is going down the drain and crime rates rapidly rising.

Someone will twist or focus on some minor facet to state that's not the case at all. Everyone will like and tweet that article clinging to the feeling that we're still great.

4) Inability to treat root causes rather than symptoms.

5) A toxic media climate dominated by "feel good" articles and vicious attacks on any dissidents.

6) Exaggerating and focusing on the wrong topics. We can have a turbulent feminist debate in all the newspapers about manspreading in the subway, while ignoring issues like cultural violence against women, because it isn't "political correct" to even discuss that topic.

Sweden's problems are not only Sweden's... but symptomatic of the problems we're facing in general in Europe and the world: Inability to deal with rampant complexity and globalization, a financial system predicated on unsustainable expansion, booming population and third-world poverty meeting first world abundance.

We just want to feel like good people in a world where it's more and more everyone for themselves... Just saying all this makes me depressed, think I'll go back to believing we're awesome.

Re: Goodbye Sweden

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People here in Scandinavia are very worried because their cozy little village of a region is being infused with massively different cultures. Can't really blame them, and to be sure crime and social costs are higher as a result of immigration. That said, there is every reason to believe that these effects will diminish over time as immigrants start to integrate, even some beneficial effects are already showing. The p…

Here in Denmark, in my opinion much of the worry is not based on first-hand experience with actual immigrants who have moved to your town and are not integrating well, but rather with a more generalized worry that the culture in some sense is threatened. That's harder to solve with practical measures like integration assistance, because it's not based on specific daily problems but more general ideological worldviews…

That is absolutely correct. But Switzerland has a different kind of immigration - its mostly highly skilled workers, working in IT or as doctors, and some lower skilled labour in the hospitality industry. The total amount is very high though (20%+), which makes people uncomfortable - and understandably so.

The situation in Sweden is a bit different though. Many of them are people that have no chance of finding a job in the Swedish market, which leads to crime, ghettos and separated societies. Its essentially mis-managed on a political level. This will only lead to resentment, the rise of right-wing parties and social problems. I don't think this is a desirable outcome for either the immigrants nor for Sweden as a society.

Re: Goodbye Sweden

#70

Swede here – I don't agree with this post. He does bring up some very good point about the real estate situation though. I do, however, think that it's wrong to say that Stefan Löfven is a 'corrupt yokel'. He's been in a very hard situation politically, where he's been forced to rule as a minority. The opposition is doing everything they can to make sure that he looks incompetent as a leader, as it's basically ensuri…

Yeah, don't be confused, this article is racist and xenophobic, in it's most dangerous form, hidden as something else.
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