Musk files to provide Internet service from space • Hacker News Board

Re: Musk files to provide Internet service from space

#91

Post by beambot » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 4:24 AM UTC

ourmandave wrote: post #3

If this were to ultimately succeed in cheap internet everywhere, it doesn't bode well for other projects like Google's Loon. https://www.google.com/loon/ Unless they can do it cheaper I suppose.

> A key employee leading Google Inc.'s efforts to beam Internet access from satellites has left the company and is now working closely with Space Exploration Technologies Corp. and its founder Elon Musk, according to people familiar with the matter.

> When he left, Mr. Wyler took with him the rights to certain radio spectrum that could be used to provide Internet access

http://www.wsj.com/articles/google-satellite-executive-greg-...

Re: Musk files to provide Internet service from space

#92

Post by scotth » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 4:28 AM UTC

apkessl1 wrote: post #23

fivedogit wrote: post #7

My first thought, here, was "Well what about the speed of light? Wouldn't that cause satellite internet service to suck, just like it does now? And isn't that why news correspondents are always delayed?" But then I did the math: Speed of light = 186 miles per millisecond. Satellites orbit at about 380 miles above earth (Source: Hubble). So it only takes ~4 ms for a round trip to a satellite directly above? I did not…

Good question. The vast majority of satellite communications today are conducted via geostationary orbit, 35,786 km above the earth. This is the distance at which a satellite orbiting around the equator moves with the same velocity as the surface of the earth, keeping the satellite in a fixed position. This is good for communicating via the ground, since you can just set up your dish pointing in the direction of the…

> satellite orbiting around the equator moves with the same velocity as the surface of the earth

To be specific, angular velocity.

Re: Musk files to provide Internet service from space

#93

Post by dwg » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 4:29 AM UTC

crorella wrote: post #8

tdaltonc wrote: post #6

Interestingly, Facebook just announces that they are giving up on a project to do just that. http://www.businessinsider.com/facebook-scraps-secret-plan-t...

It looks like the approach was different: instead of having several thousand of small and 'cheap' satellites, they were aiming for an expensive and big one.

Presumably this is because of the cost of launching the satellites (obviously quite a bit more than racking a server in a data center).

Nonetheless, if this strategy beats the latency, then I agree that it's the right one.

Re: Musk files to provide Internet service from space

#94

Post by superskierpat » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 4:32 AM UTC

hughes wrote: post #78

dankohn1 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We raised $1.6 B, received the largest spectrum allocation in the history of the world (1000 Megahertz, in the Ka band, available globally), and launched one test satellite. But, the biggest problem with these sorts of systems is that there is no MVP. Essentially everything has to work before anything can. Our design was for a network of Low Earth Orbit satellites, which would mean cellular-like latency. We were plan…

If you raised $1.6B, it doesn't sound like fundraising was the problem... or did the incumbents try to strong-arm the project?

Well the article said costs ballooned to over $9b, so fundraising would be a problem.

Re: Musk files to provide Internet service from space

#95

Post by dzhiurgis » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 4:38 AM UTC

greglindahl wrote: post #38

ourmandave wrote: post #3

If this were to ultimately succeed in cheap internet everywhere, it doesn't bode well for other projects like Google's Loon. https://www.google.com/loon/ Unless they can do it cheaper I suppose.

Google invested in SpaceX in order to fund this Internet satellite project.

Call me crazy, but wouldn't it make sense to have servers on the satellite?

Solar energy + lower latency. Cooling is still a problem in vacuum though.

Re: Musk files to provide Internet service from space

#96

Post by kiba » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 4:53 AM UTC

dzhiurgis wrote: post #95

greglindahl wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google invested in SpaceX in order to fund this Internet satellite project.

Call me crazy, but wouldn't it make sense to have servers on the satellite? Solar energy + lower latency. Cooling is still a problem in vacuum though.

You're not going to have much computational capability especially given the mass.

Re: Musk files to provide Internet service from space

#97

Post by greglindahl » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 4:54 AM UTC

dzhiurgis wrote: post #95

greglindahl wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google invested in SpaceX in order to fund this Internet satellite project.

Call me crazy, but wouldn't it make sense to have servers on the satellite? Solar energy + lower latency. Cooling is still a problem in vacuum though.

It's much cheaper to build a server into each ground station.

Re: Musk files to provide Internet service from space

#98

Post by dzhiurgis » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 4:57 AM UTC

hughes wrote: post #9

fivedogit wrote: post #7

My first thought, here, was "Well what about the speed of light? Wouldn't that cause satellite internet service to suck, just like it does now? And isn't that why news correspondents are always delayed?" But then I did the math: Speed of light = 186 miles per millisecond. Satellites orbit at about 380 miles above earth (Source: Hubble). So it only takes ~4 ms for a round trip to a satellite directly above? I did not…

Unless the content you're accessing is hosted on the satellite, it will have to jump several more times over a much longer distance for a complete round trip. Can you factor that in to your estimate?

Not necessarily, distance between satellites most definitely will be shorter than on ground network.

Re: Musk files to provide Internet service from space

#99

Post by Dylan16807 » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 5:08 AM UTC

NamTaf wrote: post #83

anamexis wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By which definition? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off-the-grid

The internet is a grid of computers to which you connect. More than that though, conceptually "off-the-grid" means not accepting a utility serivce from a provider but rather catering for that yourself. An internet connection is arguably a utility, and you'd be accepting it from an ISP. That goes against the concept, which would suggest you should maintain your own isolated network of computers and not connect with th…

You wouldn't have to be isolated. You could make connections, just not ones that depend on a centralized ISP.

But "off-the-grid" typically is talking about physical delivery over wires and pipes, not about things like wireless internet.

Re: Musk files to provide Internet service from space

#100

Post by jreimers » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 5:23 AM UTC

Replacing terrestrial broadband is great, but what happens when your internet stops working because it is raining outside? How exactly do they plan to deal with rain fade while operating in the Ka band?