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It's the Future

blog.circleci.com

101–110 of 146 posts

Re: It's the Future

#101
post #81

Anne > What’s Aphyr? Bob > -Aphyr is that guy who wrote, ‘Call Me Maybe.’ You know, the distributed systems and BDSM guy? Anne > What? Did you say BDSM? Bob > -Yeah, BDSM. It’s San Francisco. Everyone’s into distributed systems and BDSM. This hilarity demonstrates the tone, and alone is worth the price of admission. Great job with this article.

"Paxos is like this really old distributed consensus protocol from the 70s that no-one understands or uses."

I've run into this. In reality The Part-Time Parliament was published in 1998 and Paxos Made Simple in 2001.

Re: It's the Future

#102
post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That one-liner won't work (for me), it's missing a slash in the awk command. I have this aliased as `docker-rmi-junk` since it's so common. docker rmi -f $(docker images | grep "^ " | awk "{print \$3}") I agree with everything else you're saying completely. Although messaging a value prop is hard when you have so many use cases. We faced the same issue and ended up trying to segment users as quickly and high up in th…

Or the marginally shorter: docker images -f "dangling=true" -q | xargs -r docker rmi

You can actually go even shorter:

  docker images -qf dangling=true | xargs -r docker rmi
Along with:

  docker ps -aqf status=exited | xargs -r docker rm
You've got two essential Docker aliases for cleaning up your dev environment.

Re: It's the Future

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is a mix of things being bandied about under the "container" banner. On the one hand it is about getting more bang for your hardware buck. On the other it is about someone getting so deep into netsec that they have developed gills. In the bang for bucks category you have a chain of one box pr database etc. Then noticing that the hardware sits idle most of the time, so virtualization is depolyed to pack…

Yeah, but none of that actually needs docker and images and such. If you want to take advantage of the whole server, you can simply run more regular processes on it, and you can launch them on different namespaces using systemd or other process manager. You don't need the whole workflow that comes with these new tools.

From a traditional sysadmins point of view, thats true.

these days though you are looking at devops...

Never mind that more recent systemd releases can grok docker containers.

Re: It's the Future

#104
post #4

It really is striking how products like Docker, even while delivering incredible value, continuously fail to message themselves in an intelligible way. If you go to https://www.docker.com , you see: "Build, Ship and Run. Any App, Anywhere." Jesus Christ. I get that you're The Future, but make the value prop for me here, at least. Why should I use Docker? What parts of my stack does it replace? When does the cost-bene…

I will echo this.

I'm not ignorant. I understand VM and virtualization in general. I understand chroot. I understand how The ANSI-Standard Multitasking Multiuser OS works. It still took me a few attempts to understand what Docker even is because, frankly, it isn't quite any of those things.

It's a lot more akin to what Plan 9 was doing with namespaces, but I think they take it a bit further. It finally clicked when someone described it in terms of "multiple distros on the same kernel at the same time" and then defined a distro in terms of being an init process and a userspace. That makes sense. Reading up on the clone(2) system call, which is where the 'magic' is, made it even clearer.

But that's impenetrably technical unless you already have a pretty good background in operating systems. As any marketer will tell you, being technical is poison. Ideally, you should be able to sell the product in terms of what it will allow, not how it works. Except with Docker, that's hard: "Oh, it will allow me to run multiple applications at once. It's... an OS kernel? Nope, it says it's Linux. So it's a distro? Nope... uh... is it a new VM? Nope, not that, they all have to share the same kernel... what?"

I guess my point is Docker is hard to market. The website is either going to be vague or rather dense, and vague seems to win.

Re: It's the Future

#105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whenever I see a product segmented that way, I'm immediately suspicious. That much work means that a) they're trying to sell something because it isn't obviously better and b) they're more worried about messaging than being simple and useful.

> they're more worried about messaging than being simple and useful But useful means different things to different people. To a dev, Docker might mean you keep your environment clean, scripting of automated testing, and have platform agnostic deployments. To the CIO, Docker means your devs spend less time futzing around with their stuff and more time working on the product. Or that he can upgrade his infrastructure g…

> To the CIO, Docker means your devs spend less time futzing around with their stuff and more time working on the product

The question is whether or not the CIO knows that the devs are in fact futzing around with ad hoc solutions to problems that Docker solves.

I think the parent is arguing that in the right flow of things, that awareness is going to flow up to them from the people closest to the problem (the dev/ops folks working with it) rather than from a vendor with a vested interest in adoption to an exec/manager whose understanding of the problems their staff face may well be a high-level view at best. And who are prone to make decisions off of social proof plus that good messaging rather than knowing how well the solution fits their problems.

(Not that having the engineering staff involved is any guarantee that decision won't be mostly made off of social proof plus messaging. It just decreases the chances. :/ )

Re: It's the Future

#106
post #34

This is exactly how I feel whenever people start talking about this stuff. Is that bad? I know this is a satirical post but it seems like a pretty faithful depiction of reality.

This is really nothing new. It's a DevOps version of Joel on Software's famous essay about Architecture Astronaughts from 2001: http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000018.html

I get the feeling that there is a second aspect to it, netsec fundamentalism.

People so deep into CVEs and such that they see every computer as requiring the digital equivalent of fort Knox level security, or civilization will fall.

Re: It's the Future

#107
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New, new hotness is React Native (or whenever FB decides to make it also available on Android) and JSBlocks.

New, new, new hotness is Aurelia! Get with the times! http://aurelia.io/ Edit: just wanted to point out that this post was only partially satirical. I absolutely am in love with Aurelia atm.

[deleted]

Re: It's the Future

#108

Sadly I often feel this is the state of most of the web-dev stack due to high churn. There are extremely smart people working on tools who keep forking out new frameworks/tools/components/scripts and a bigger pool of smart people who keep consuming it. Having seen in enterprise incredible amount of man-hours wasted on migrating, re-writing and creating POCs on the latest fad, I sometimes wonder whether this cycle is…

> There are extremely smart people working on tools who keep forking out new frameworks/tools/components/scripts and a bigger pool of smart people who keep consuming it.

Well, at least they get the privilege of being regarded as very smart. Why be a lowly smart web developer when you can be elevated to the status of extremely smart framework author/designer? If they care about that kind of status.

If you want them to be a bit less trigger-happy, perhaps don't praise them so much for creating their own small contributions to the fragmented landscape.

Re: It's the Future

#109
post #81

Anne > What’s Aphyr? Bob > -Aphyr is that guy who wrote, ‘Call Me Maybe.’ You know, the distributed systems and BDSM guy? Anne > What? Did you say BDSM? Bob > -Yeah, BDSM. It’s San Francisco. Everyone’s into distributed systems and BDSM. This hilarity demonstrates the tone, and alone is worth the price of admission. Great job with this article.

"Paxos is like this really old distributed consensus protocol from the 70s that no-one understands or uses." I've run into this. In reality The Part-Time Parliament was published in 1998 and Paxos Made Simple in 2001.

Maybe they got their IT-timescale mixed up with our normal timescale. Things that happened in IT in the 70s on the normal timescale was like 200 IT years ago on the tech timescale, man.

Re: It's the Future

#110

Sadly I often feel this is the state of most of the web-dev stack due to high churn. There are extremely smart people working on tools who keep forking out new frameworks/tools/components/scripts and a bigger pool of smart people who keep consuming it. Having seen in enterprise incredible amount of man-hours wasted on migrating, re-writing and creating POCs on the latest fad, I sometimes wonder whether this cycle is…

It may have picked up a quicker cadence on the web, but i swear this has been the case on "desktop" as well.
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