This seems like a good argument for well-thought-out codes of conduct at conferences and whatnot. Sure, "just don't be a dick" sounds like a good rule on the surface, but spelling out the rules can make things run much more smoothly in practice.
"General Orders for Sentries" as an operations document
41–48 of 48 posts
Re: "General Orders for Sentries" as an operations document
#42This is drilled into you when you join the Navy. Then you get to an aircraft carrier. You're the in port officer of the deck. You know the rules. You make sure every sentry is checking ID's. Then someone tries to get through with a piece of laminated red paper with their name on it. You turn them away. They say, "Hey, I'm a contractor, I'm supposed to be here." You call the Command Duty Officer. He says, "Oh, if it's…
Every contractor really is a massive security risk. If it was wartime and there was any threat to the navy, all the work would be done by navy technicians. It really shows the extent to which bureaucracy has taken over the American military.
Yes a terrible security risk what happens when some one tailgates a bunch of contractors with a made up pass. Easy way to smuggle bad stuff onto a ship.
Sounds like the start of a NCIS episode.
Re: "General Orders for Sentries" as an operations document
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
Concur. A charming read that plays on the reader's generally inaccurate assumption that the military is just like "Full Metal Jacket". I too had to memorize these and then once the screaming stopped, I never saw them again. I think these are a big deal in the Marine Corps and that's it.
Even in the Marine Corps, many Marines forget them after their initial training. Overall, Marines make sure to be attentive on post and challenge all personnel attempting to enter. The general orders just spell out the reasonable course of action most of the time when on guard duty.
Like most things, it depends. In the USMC infantry the general orders are pretty relevant to daily activity (all the way up to Sgt), so practical application reinforces the learning. I can still rattle off the definition and justifications of deadly force in a single breath, and its been 10 years since I did any interior guard duty. I had to do some scripting in perl 4 years ago, maybe 10% of the day for a year, and I don't remember much of it aside from the shebang at the top and the *.pl file extension.
Re: "General Orders for Sentries" as an operations document
#44Tbese rules are so important a lowly sentry fored the superintendent of the naval academy to resign when the admiral got into a scuffle over showing an ID. http://www.militarycorruption.com/naughton2.htm
I was actually kind of close to that, the incident got added to the long list of examples provided to the enlisted. It is incredibly stressful for a PFC when he has to ruin an officer's day, knowing that they'll not be thrown under the bus lets them do their job. When I was going through the School of Infantry I witnessed a PFC, guarding an ammo depot, buttstroke a LT who had ignored the sentry's instructions to leave the secured area. The LT was discharged and the PFC got promoted pretty much on the spot.
Re: "General Orders for Sentries" as an operations document
#45Earlier quoted context omitted.
A group of folks were ordered hanged in the most recent episode.
OK that's definitely a spoiler. (NB: I have not seen this season.)
What did it spoil? Some group of people got hanged?
If it was a spoiler, than you can precisely predict what happens in the show in your next comment.
Re: "General Orders for Sentries" as an operations document
#46This is drilled into you when you join the Navy. Then you get to an aircraft carrier. You're the in port officer of the deck. You know the rules. You make sure every sentry is checking ID's. Then someone tries to get through with a piece of laminated red paper with their name on it. You turn them away. They say, "Hey, I'm a contractor, I'm supposed to be here." You call the Command Duty Officer. He says, "Oh, if it's…
Every contractor really is a massive security risk. If it was wartime and there was any threat to the navy, all the work would be done by navy technicians. It really shows the extent to which bureaucracy has taken over the American military.
Not bureaucracy, corruption. In my own experience, the contractors cost more (though the individual workers don't see more money) with the extra money going to the company, which spends some of it lobbying or offering nice jobs to those who award the contracts. You see this at all different scales.
Re: "General Orders for Sentries" as an operations document
#47I like the author's careful descriptions of what is good about the document, but it seems like common-sense pragmatism. Surely there are other, equally pragmatic and sensible, documents? (I admit that I don't have any examples, but I am not often exposed to good or bad procedures documents.) Why does this one deserve particularly to be singled out? EDIT: As dragonwriter ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9682195…
Sebastian Marshall writes in a fairly hyperbolic style. If I were to apply a de-hyperbolizing filter, I think the post title would be something more like "this document is a pretty good example of how processes can evolve and become perfected over time."
Not sure if anyone is reading this thread any more, but...
> If I were to apply a de-hyperbolizing filter, I think the post title would be something more like "this document is a pretty good example of how processes can evolve and become perfected over time."
Actually, I wasn't using hyperbole at all: I've studied a lot of operations documents, and this is (literally) my favorite one of all time. It operates on many levels, effectively changes normal human behavior for a number of different actors with very different motivations and communication styles, and it's critically important.
It's also very well debugged. It's really a very fine document, again, my #1 in operations that I've read. (#2 is probably Dalio's Principles at Bridgewater.) If anyone has anything equally good as a candidate though, shoot me an email -- I love studying, corresponding about, and discussing this stuff.
Re: "General Orders for Sentries" as an operations document
#48Wow, neat. I'm a little late to the party here: I think I wrote under a dozen non-announcement blog posts from May 2014 to May 2015... glad this one resonated and was useful.