The double life of Hasidic atheists • Hacker News Board

Re: The double life of Hasidic atheists

#61

Post by JohnTHaller » Mon, Jun 08, 2015, 8:42 PM UTC

obstinate wrote: post #31

JohnTHaller wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Church is a much less popular/common way to meet people than it used to be: https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/chart7.png?w=...

Online is drinking everything else's milkshake! What a graph! It's easy to see why it appeals so well -- every candidate you examine is looking for a predictable thing, which assuming you're doing your search properly, is roughly the same as what you're looking for. There's still a significant risk that any given match won't care for you or vice versa, but it eliminates an entire layer of annoyance -- that is, that t…

It's nothing compared to same sex couples: https://timedotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/chart_samesex...

Re: The double life of Hasidic atheists

#62

Post by jarboot » Mon, Jun 08, 2015, 8:57 PM UTC

modeless wrote: post #17

I find myself jealous of these people. For the price of a little hypocrisy, you get to be part of a very supportive community. You get structure for your life, a large number of social gatherings, and a big pool of potential friends and romantic partners. I almost considered going to church just for that reason (back when I was in college and friends with a lot of devout Christians), but I couldn't stomach the hypocr…

Being in a church includes you in a fantastic community. If anyone is sick, my childhood church would cook meals and bring them over. If you needed a job, someone could find you an opening (that's how I got my first job). Everyone carpooled to church events, had house parties, and because it was a Lutheran church (WELS), drank quite a bit too.

I've never believed in god, but since my dad was President of the congregation I sort of went along for the ride. I still play piano for the church (and thank the church for starting the spark for it), even though I don't really believe in all that. It's just a nice and caring community. When I'm older, I'm absolutely going to try joining some sort of church.

Re: The double life of Hasidic atheists

#63

Post by dragonwriter » Mon, Jun 08, 2015, 8:58 PM UTC

jarboot wrote: post #62

modeless wrote: post #17

I find myself jealous of these people. For the price of a little hypocrisy, you get to be part of a very supportive community. You get structure for your life, a large number of social gatherings, and a big pool of potential friends and romantic partners. I almost considered going to church just for that reason (back when I was in college and friends with a lot of devout Christians), but I couldn't stomach the hypocr…

Being in a church includes you in a fantastic community. If anyone is sick, my childhood church would cook meals and bring them over. If you needed a job, someone could find you an opening (that's how I got my first job). Everyone carpooled to church events, had house parties, and because it was a Lutheran church (WELS), drank quite a bit too. I've never believed in god, but since my dad was President of the congrega…

> Being in a church includes you in a fantastic community.

That rather strongly depends on the church (and you; communities aren't objectively fantastic, the same community can be fantastic for one person and a nightmare for another; this is definitely as true of church communities as communities in general.)

Re: The double life of Hasidic atheists

#64

Post by dragonwriter » Mon, Jun 08, 2015, 9:15 PM UTC

modeless wrote: post #17

I find myself jealous of these people. For the price of a little hypocrisy, you get to be part of a very supportive community. You get structure for your life, a large number of social gatherings, and a big pool of potential friends and romantic partners. I almost considered going to church just for that reason (back when I was in college and friends with a lot of devout Christians), but I couldn't stomach the hypocr…

> Perhaps somebody could start an "atheist church",

Already been done, see, e.g., the "Sunday Assembly" phenomenon.

> I don't want atheism to define my life in the same way belief defines the life of religious adherents. I don't want to attend atheist classes or listen to an atheist preacher or be around evangelical atheists. I just want a large community of people who stick together, follow a common moral code, support each other, and have regular social events.

From what I've heard, most Sunday Assembly groups are a lot like what you describe wanting, and less like what you describe not wanting.

Re: The double life of Hasidic atheists

#65

Post by davemel37 » Wed, Jun 10, 2015, 3:45 PM UTC

sliverstorm wrote: post #39

davemel37 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Judaism is much more concerned with actions than thought" This is at best an out of context understanding and at worst a complete distortion of the Jewish faith. "Service of the heart" is the core obligation of Judaism. Every single morning and evening Jews say the Shma which states the primary commandment of Judaism is to "Love G-d with all your heart, all your soul(personality), and all your resources..." Maimonid…

I don't know if this is your intent, but you have in an instant completely flipped Judaism from something interesting to this agnostic, to something completely dead-end and not worth pursuing. A compromising approach is accessible. A hard-line "nothing less than absolute and total devotion is even worth considering, and therefore fundamentally not worth your time" is not. Where is the unsure, dubious, or curious indi…

I must have failed to communicate clearly. Let me explain. The fundamental purpose of life according to Judaism is about striving towards personal perfection and growth(Tikun Olam).

Striving towards being the key terms.as long as you are trying, you are serving your purpose on your own level. This is actually what ars was talking about...it's better to act without belief than to not act...my only point was not to lose focus on the end goal.

If I had to explain it without religion from the simple perspective of seeking truth. I would say," since intellect is driven by will(we only learn something if we want to, we only seek the answer to a question we care about, etc...)how can we seperate out our personal bias and desires and subjective needs from the absolute truth we all so desperately seek?"

Almost all the mitzvos in the Torah and ritual activities Jews partake in are about selflessness and finding ways to root out personal bias so you can see the truth. If you have to pray before biting into an Apple, you are essentially putting G-ds will ahead of your own desire to eat.

By nurturing this sensitivity and willingness to seek truth from outside yourself and your own research, you can be more objective and find absolute truth.

Think about a science experiment where you start with only one hypothesis. You can easily find evidence to confirm your hypothesis, but it won't prove anything scientifically because you didn't compare hypothesis to see if the evidence can support other hypothesis as well.

In order to maximize on personal relationships, life, etc... You need to root out your personal emotions and bias as much as possible...

That's all Judaism is about... rooting out subjective bias to seek truth in an effort to achieve personal growth.

This requires a willingness to trust others before you and recognize that if you only behave based on what you fully understand you will be acting on bias. So, we do lots of things we don't quite understand trusting our parents, grandparents, etc...as we seek to understand more and more.